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This is the first distro with Gnome 3.18,Wayland and systemd ... And the new sat solver based package manager. And it works really very well.
There are liveusb (for macbooks as well) - really encourage everyone to give it a spin without installing. This is really the future of the Linux desktop.
The way this comment is phrased is a bit misleading. FC23 is not the first distro to have have access to each of those four things individually, and some of those things are not even new to this Fedora release. Systemd has been the default init system in Fedora for a couple years now, and DNF (new package manager) came in Fedora 22.
For the actual changes go here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/23/ChangeSet
It might be time to switch to a package management paradigm that doesn't require SAT solvers.
For example, one in which packages do not conflict because they are installed in a directory for each package, and there is an "alternatives" mechanism for any global choice.
I have been on Arch with the first three of those features for a couple of weeks now :)
How well does it work on macbbooks?
I had a painful experience a while ago trying to install Arch on my mac. It kept freezing up, so I had to give up as I had a load of other things to do.
I would really like to have another bash at getting Linux going on it.
systemd has been the default init system for most distro's for quite a while now. Gnome is just one of the many desktop environments (and I wouldn't want to touch it with a ten foot pole). Wayland is nice though, and it's nice to see it reach the level of maturity to become the default display server on a popular distribution.
> There are liveusb (for macbooks as well)
Specific Mac images, or the main live USB image works on Macs?
Fedora has had systemd for quite some time now.
was really looking forward to this as well, but couldn't get it to run on my mbp6,2
The other day I was considering switch my mom's PC from Windows to Linux. She is the type of user who do almost everything on the browser (Gmail, Google Docs, Google Photos, YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, read stuff), off the cloud maybe some MP3, photos and documents; I mean, no command lines, no read tutorials to do something, no annoyances, easy to give up on something with too much steps.
I was considering installing the distro Elementary OS or Ubuntu. Do you think that Fedora can be a good option too? Which of the three is best for that user case?
A thing to consider is that her laptop is a bit old, from 2005-2010 I think. I remember that has 2 GB of RAM. She upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and say that now runs faster than before. The new OS shouldn't run slower than Windows 10.
I'm on a decision paralysis because on Elementary OS I see most simplicity (OS X in mind), in Ubuntu more speed and trust that is not going to crash (large user base), and now I discover Fedora and see that can have a good mix of both.
Let me know what you think. Thanks!
Links: http://elementary.io http://ubuntu.com/desktop http://getfedora.org/en/workstation/
As an elementary OS contributor _and_ Fedora user, I guess this is my time to shine, hu?
It really depends on your use case. I've heard quite a bit positive feedback about elementary OS for "computer illiterate" (parents, old people, etc). It seems to "just work" for them after installation (bear with me I really can't judge about "ease of use" after years with Linux) and it's running on Ubuntu LTS versions. You're running apt-get to install security fixes, the current version of Firefox/Chrome and fixes provided by the elementary OS team, and that's basically it.
Fedora on the other hand is "the latest hot thing". It has by far the best GNOME3 integration and it previews technical features worked on by Red Hat and GNOME. It also features recent kernel versions which might be important for new-ish hardware. All that is quite awesome for technical-minded people like me. I'd like to say "it's unstable", but in my experience, it's not. I did not do the 22 -> 23 transition yet though. You have to do some additional work for the frequent new versions (backup everything in case it breaks, try the transition, etc). You also have to fiddle around with GNOME addons, font rendering and media codecs (RPMFusion as third-party provider) to make it usable as "personal computer" IMHO.
In the end it's up to you. I do believe your mom will be able to work with both (you'll need to tweak GNOME a bit IMHO, but that's up to discussion I guess), but you'll have to deal with different administrative workloads.
Switched my mum to Xubuntu over two years ago, so far I've had two support calls (down from about one/two per month plus totally breaking it fairly regulary with Windows).
9/10 - Would penguinise again.
Some have an infatuation with constantly trying out distributions that I don't understand. They are the ones who compile your software, so you need to trust them. On my personal PCs I've run Debian since almost 20 years (has it really been that long..?). It needs to work, all the time.
For parents and other relatives I've installed Ubuntu, though. Mostly because it's seen an incomparable amount of third party support. Spotify, Chrome, and some other tools publish Ubuntu repositories, so those things Just Work.
You can then set up them with whatever desktop you find useful, but the farther you stray from vanilla default the more you risk things to break on upgrading, and you're the one doing the support. How do you know something called "Elementary" can even be upgraded? That it'll be around in five years? I briefly look at Mint, as it was essentially Ubuntu, but they don't support upgrades at all.
So I'd say install Ubuntu or Fedora, and go with what you know and what has the most users. Do all the upgrades yourself when you have time for it. They're usually straightforward, but might inform the user of things or ask questions a casual user is not prepared to understand.
My parents use linux mint, which has a familiar feeling desktop (cinnamon) if you come from the windows world. It has a big enough user base in it's own right, and being an ubuntu (and derivatively debian) based distro, it's easy to find help on issues.
My mom moved from a Mac Mini (PPC) to an old Core2Duo with Fedora not too long ago, and I'm pretty happy with the result. As I got her to use Chrome before, anything browser based wasn't a big switch, but I was worried a bit about moving on from iPhoto. But shotwell is pretty great in that regard, being a bit of a clone in the first place...
I don't see a big advantage in Elementary when it comes to simplicity. GNOME itself ain't exactly overloaded with options, it's just that E tries very hard to appease the Mac folks. So it's mostly aimed at already computer literate minimalists, more than the computer semi-literate. I'm also not too excited about the support, even compared to other alternative desktops.
And with GNOME extensions & tweaks, it's quite easy to adapt to different usage patterns, e.g. if someone really wants desktop icons, a fixed dock or a taskbar.
I was really surprised about how easy it went. Definitely recommend it. And if something goes wrong that you don't know anything about (odd hardware probs, software you're not using yourself), it's always easier to find help for Fedora and Ubuntu distros and default desktops.
Someone should really make a distro spin intended for relatives and friends, where everything just comes ready with remote support, desktop sharing etc.
Upgrade the laptop with an SSD if you haven't already. If you do that at the same time when you switch to Linux, it will boost her experience and trust.
I'm thinking about this as well. My mother uses Windows 7 with Firefox, Thunderbird for mail, LibreOffice and Windows Photo Gallery. I think Ubuntu LTS with the Unity desktop is the best choice. Mint is an option.
In my experience Fedora/Centos is much more work installing applications. That may be my lack of experience with using Centos for desktop. If it's only about the browser, it won't matter much, and then your experience is leading.
I have a Lenovo laptop with 2GB RAM and Ubuntu 14.04 installed on SSD. It stalls many times. You need 4GB RAM. It will work on that laptop, but with issues, probably the same issues she has now. Better buy a new cheap laptop and make sure it has at least 4GB RAM.
Be careful with UEFI - it can cause many headaches when you want to install Linux. It took me more than a month to get it working.
Last tip: Try to find a laptop that has a proven record to work with Linux. Not all laptops qualify, have a modified motherboard or graphics card etc. The old laptop can be tested with a live stick.
Try each one!
I'm not sure if you are aware, but Linux allows you to run any desktop as a liveUSB. This means that you plug a specially created USB drive (that take 5 minutes) into your PC and boot from the USB drive. You get to try out the Desktop for as long as you like and it does not touch the OS that is installed on your hard disk. Its a great and addictive way to try out a lot of different Linux flavors!
I'd recommend Xubuntu LTS. It's has Ubuntu's big community, is fast and stable, and comes with a familiar interface.
I gave up on fedora around 17 I think after it broke again for no obvious reason. (I'm not a expert sysadmin but I have been running Linux servers in production since 2009 and used Linux workstations on and off since 2003-ish.)
Happy to hear if anyone knows if stability has improved since then.
Fedora is a nice desktop distro, but the versions are supported for 18 months and that's really inconvenient. Upgrades to the next version have improved, but is not as smooth as Debian/Ubuntu (in my experience).
For my mom, I use an Ubuntu LTS :)
Get her a Chromebook
elementary is awesome, but chromebook is what you should be using
Installed Ubuntu 11.10, had no tech calls since...
Now I would rather advice to go Debian w/ Mate desktop. Debian testing is stable and very reasonable, Mate seems golden middle between XFCE/GNOME/Cinnamon.
Take the one with the longest support period. Instead of Fedora, you might want to try CentOS.
I'm a fairly recent convert to Fedora from Arch, and I don't think I'll ever go to another distro as long as they keep up the good work. I even suggest Fedora to anyone who wants to try out Linux because Fedora is easy to install, doesn't come with a bunch of extra stuff you don't need, dnf is a great package manager, and the default software is the latest stable version. Perfect for people just coming on board, I think.
I just downloaded 23 and it worked like a charm. I'm not sure how much this upgrade affects me, but it is nice to see how nothing was lost (maybe it is my illusion, but programs seem to load a bit faster?). Good job to everyone who commits to this project.
While I wish Fedora was a rolling release, I'm happy that the upgrade was easy and didn't take very long.
> I'm a fairly recent convert to Fedora from Arch, and I don't think I'll ever go to another distro...
as a fairly long time arch user, may you please describe areas where you find arch to be deficient w.r.t fedora ? i haven't tried using redhat for while, but when i did earlier, i just found rpm, and later yum, to be quite cumbersome to work with. thanks !
>the default software is the latest stable version
That's debatable. I don't consider the latest upstream versions "stable", no matter what they think - I've been using Linux long enough to know this the hard way. I think for people new to Linux (and for people experienced in Linux that don't like bugs too) a more conservative distro like Ubuntu LTS or Debian works much better in the long run.
Hold tight, I'ma bout to blow your mind man:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Rawhide
> because Fedora is easy to install
Last time I tried Fedora was the previous version and I found it impossible to install codecs. You have to add third-party repository (rpmfusion), the problem I'm having is the way the repo is authenticated - http website points to a pgp key signed by one Corey Sheldon who appears to be only self-signed, so there is no way to establish chain of trust.
I could download the key from multiple sources but I don't feel I should have to and more than that, I don't trust people who to some degree rely on security theatre, which http page pointing to a lonely public key essentially is. It's no better than downloading over plain http and my slight OCD compels me to refuse to do that.
I realize this is more a rant about rpmfusion than Fedora, but then I feel essential support for playing various media files should be included within desktop OS.
Fedora's great! It's been my dev environment now for a couple years.
For those curious, here are the major changes that went into this release:
I'm really impressed with Fedora 23. My only gripe is the horrific sub pixel rendering. I'm waiting for rpmfusion to come out so I can install an alternative font rendering engine.
It's also lacking netbeans in the repo which is kind of a hassle for me.
Actually, just adding this [1] config file and restarting is good enough.
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/3o6ijr/trying_fedor...
Same. Installed 23 yesterday but my god the fonts are horrible and I couldn't find a quick fix (and didn't have time to try and hack things in). Shame as Ubuntu Gnome looks great out of the box.
Also as someone very new to Fedora is there a crash course on DNF? Funny how lost I felt without apt-get.
Yep, akamod-wl is not available via 23 rpmfusion yet, so the wireless interface on my macbook took a dive after the upgrade.
Have been bitten by docker upgrade from FC21 to FC22 and docker-fig upgrade on FC21 from fedora package. I have faced problem ranging from docker daemon refusing to start, failed to run container, and SELinux alarm ringing every now and then. Not the best developing experience.
Switched to Elementary(Ubuntu based distro) combined with docker repo now.
In my opinion, FC is more suited to lightweight work (email, word, spreadsheet).
Can anyone comment on current status of using Fedora (or maybe even Linux in general) on sleep/suspend/hibernate? I remember the last time I tried it being a hit or miss and was painful to get working consistently.
For reference, I'm using Retina MacBook Pro Mid 2012 (10,1), but I was unsuccessful on my Dell Latitude E Series (the exact model escapes me at the moment) also and gave up.
Suspend works perfectly for me on Debian. I don't use hibernation (no reason to).
Apparently those using nvidia proprietary drivers should wait until nvidia supports X.org 1.18 (or downgrade X.org to 1.17).
Suppose I just want to use my Nvidia card in GPU mode (i.e. monitor only connected to Intel integrated video), does the X.org version still impact me? Or does the 'nvidia' proprietary driver somehow pull in Xorg dependencies even when not displaying anything?
Last time I tried Fedora I got stuck on installing the boot manager, probably because of secure boot. It worked fine on Ubuntu though.
Is there a version with KDE desktop?
I've been using the KDE spin for a long time but this has me concerned - https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/kde/2015-October/0... especially what he has to say about F23 - "the Fedora 23 KDE Spin (which is now final or almost final) is easily the worst KDE Spin we have ever released:"
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/kde/download/index.html
Although you could just do a dnf install @kde-desktop and choose KDE at the login screen instead of Gnome
Fedora = best distro.
Oops! You just replaced Fedora with Debian!
Wish they removed the backdoors this time.