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by dgellow·9y ago·view on hn ↗
Wait. Actively participating in a democratic process to support you opinions is a bad thing?

edit: I will clarify. I was reacting to "Actively campaigning against the rights of gay individuals to marry or raise children". I'm for gay marriage. I'm also for allowing other people to campaign against my opinions.

2 comments
It's weird how people can't agree on whether torturing teens or banning people from using bathrooms is an 'opinion', especially since doing those things has literally no upside for anyone, and it's 'solving' problems that don't exist.
Seems to be the definition of what an opinion is. A personal view on a given topic.
When the consequences of an opinion directly infringes on a person's civil rights, then yes.
The consequences of such opinions almost always directly infringe on a person's civil rights in today's America. Increasing access to health care by raising taxes infringes upon economic freedom. Implementing gun control infringes the 2nd amendment. Keeping us safe from terrorists infringes on our fourth amendment rights.

We have, for at least the past few decades, opted to largely ignore certain types of civil liberties, and just about every American is willing to infringe someone else's liberties to get something out of the democratic process that they care more about. I agree that gay marriage is good, and doesn't hurt anyone, and that so long as marriage is an institution, every American who wants to partake in it should be allowed to, whether gay, straight, trans or whatever -- but let's not pretend that the infringement of civil liberties at the ballot box is a trait unique or peculiar to those voting against gay marriage.

I think there are a few false dichotomies in your argument. Those who campaign against gay marriage are directly seeking to abolish the rights of gay couples that are afforded to straight couples. The consequences of this is the removal of legal protections and benefits, based solely on sexual orientation, which directly establishes gay individuals as second-class citizens. Yes, this is a bad thing. Contrasting this with your examples, taxation and gun control measures are certainly not infringing on your abilities to achieve economic freedom or gun ownership. Now certainly there are many infringements on civil rights being done in the name of keeping us safe from terrorists, to which I would also say this is a "bad thing", but then I'm certainly not pretending infringement "is a trait unique or peculiar to those voting against gay marriage."
That very much depends on how charitably one interprets the law.

If banning an AR-15 doesn't infringe my right to gun ownership, then in the same way, a ban on gay marriage doesn't infringe my right to marriage. I can still marry anyone (of the opposite sex) that I choose.

Like I said, I'm not arguing on behalf of those who would ban gay marriage -- I think it's a very wrong-headed position to take, but that dosen't invalidate that it's quite a common position to take, and that the infringement of rights we don't like is a ritual practiced by left and right alike, and that the exploitation of the democratic process to effect those goals is not only common, but _routine_.

The point is that despite democracy, the constitution and its provisions against being able to impose unconstitutional whimsies on populaces we don't like are supposed to encourage a tolerant society. The tolerance to let another person live their life in a way that you don't approve of is a pre-requisite to America functioning correctly. I'm not a historian, so I can't say if we've forgotten it, or we never really knew it, but it's definitely a lesson we need to learn or re-learn as appropriate.

Tying back to OP, at least one manifestation of that ideal is perhaps not in routinely making fun of the whole rest of America to which you don't belong. Of course, it is your right to do so, but disparaging ideas with which you don't agree (as opposed to making substantive arguments through engaged civil discourse) is perhaps not the best strategy to prevent against the continuation of those routine infringements.