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by Markoff·9y ago·view on hn ↗
> Reminds me of the situation in China, where unless you have a house and a car, you're basically persona-non-grata.

That's vast exageration and it's sad people believe this common myth about China, lived there plenty of years and yes, it's common phenomenom, but so it's marriage out of love. I knew plenty of mixed couples and also plenty of local couples who contradict this claim. Pretty much none of my foreign coworkers had house or car and married if they wanted (yes, some traditional parents were not happy about it, but it was usually more about being foreigner than wealth) and so did Chinese couples doing naked wedding. I really recommend to you explore term "naked wedding" (it means without house/car) which is more and more common since properties in China are more expensive every week.

I find personally this selfpity about how you are screwed if you are not making tons of moeny and havin great car and house a lame excuse, as if all girls living would be gold diggers, but I guess in this website where is maybe 98% readers men it sounds plausible in this echo chamber.

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> That's vast exageration and it's sad people believe this common myth about China, lived there plenty of years and yes, it's common phenomenom, but so it's marriage out of love.

I'm quite familiar with China, the culture, people, and the situation on the ground. I stand by my claim. It's a serious problem, one that the government itself is addressing because they believe will lead to social instability. It's not a myth at all. It's a serious problem - it might be improving with youth in urban centers - because so many have no chance of realistically owning a house/car - but the overall mentality still very much prevails.

> Pretty much none of my foreign coworkers had house or car and married if they wanted (yes, some traditional parents were not happy about it, but it was usually more about being foreigner than wealth) and so did Chinese couples doing naked wedding.

Yes, foreigners don't need to have a house or car to get married to a local. They have other assets - like foreign citizenship - that make up the difference.

No offense, but you live in rarefied air in China. I don't think you really know about the situation facing the average Chinese person.

> I find personally this selfpity about how you are screwed if you are not making tons of moeny and havin great car and house a lame excuse, as if all girls living would be gold diggers, but I guess in this website where is maybe 98% readers men it sounds plausible in this echo chamber.

In China it's not about the gold-digging. It's just facing the realities of life on the ground: competitive society + single child families means you have to take care of your parents, so of course girls seek stability. This is natural and you find various elements of this in the west too.

as i said i knew also plenty of Chinese couples not owning any property

as for citizenship from foreigner, it's again nonsense, plenty of those Chinese would prefer never leave China where is foreign citizenship of husband just burden

have YOU lived in China? because you seem disinformed by media and dunno about reality on the ground. i lived there for years, most of my colleagues including me were married to Chinese

no point really to follow this discussion, anyone with common sense will figure out not everyone is marrying because of money, even in China

> as i said i knew also plenty of Chinese couples not owning any property

Sure, this doesn't mean that the pressures to own house+car before marriage is not real. I would argue that these pressures are especially felt in secondary and third-tier cities, where owning a house is not completely unrealistic like it is in BJ/Shanghai - also BJ/Shanghai has a much more cosmopolitan mentality amongst the youth than is normal/average. Please keep that in mind...

> as for citizenship from foreigner, it's again nonsense, plenty of those Chinese would prefer never leave China where is foreign citizenship of husband just burden

Whether or not the foreign spouse has no intention of leaving China doesn't really matter. The fact of the matter is, foreign citizenship is a nice insurance policy and provides some social clout amongst certain Chinese. The "insurance policy" is especially important given the fragility of the on-the-ground scene in China (just the pollution alone, places a nice premium on the option of escaping at a moments notice).

> have YOU lived in China? because you seem disinformed by media and dunno about reality on the ground. i lived there for years, most of my colleagues including me were married to Chinese

You assume I'm some China noob because I disagree with you. Yes I have lived in China, in fact. I've also worked there, have many friends who still live there, etc. I hope you see my comments in a new light. I'm far from ignorant / _mis_informed about China. I'll let you put two and two together for why that might be.

Also it's worth keeping in mind that your social circle in China doesn't really reflect the average Chinese person. It's like someone who graduated from Harvard, living in NYC as an investment banker, pontificating about the motivations of Jim-Bob and LuAnn in Wichita, Kansas. Even your Chinese wife - who I'm sure provides all sorts of interesting insights into Chinese culture - is different, just by the fact that she's married to a foreigner - to the average Chinese person living in randomville, Hunan province.

I don't mean to be so presumptuous about all of this, but you're assessment is so far off-base I'm not even sure how to properly respond to it. Ignorance is truly bliss, I guess.

> no point really to follow this discussion, anyone with common sense will figure out not everyone is marrying because of money, even in China

No, not everyone is marrying because of money. Still, pragmatic concerns of financial stability is a real and pressing concern in China, just as it is in all countries, including the developed West (there's a great song by the American R&B group, TLC, that perfectly encapsulates this universal view, it's called "no scrubs" - check it out). In China, these pressures are even more exacerbated by the factors that uniquely affect China: massive population (and thus competition for resources - including spouses), one-child policy, Confucius concept of filial piety, etc.

Look, I'm sorry if I offended your personal sensibilities. I'm sure your wife is a lovely person and loves you for you, but the pressures of having a house/car in order to marry in China are real. Period. Really, not that much dissimilar to the huge pressures facing Chinese high school students - and their families - to score high on the gaokao, which I'm sure you will not refute.