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by sixhobbits·8y ago·view on hn ↗
Someone sent me this article on IM. My (unedited) response:

nothing worse than someone who both doesn't understand wtf he's talking about and is very critical

either are ok on their own

>> He‘s wrong then?

well if either author can provide an article from 10-20 years ago, saying "in 10-20 years, we'll invent a single machine that can reach almost human-level translation proficiency, drive a car in complex environments, beat the best human player at logical games including chess and Go, beat the best human player at language/knowledge based games like Jeopardy, hold a lengthy conversation and answer questions, be able to accurately describe and caption images and video, and outperform humans at trading the stock market and detecting fraud but I won't be impressed because all of those things are simple" then it might have some weight

"The dream of artificial intelligence was supposed to be grander than this — to help revolutionize medicine, say, or to produce trustworthy robot helpers for the home."

robots: we already have the vacuum cleaners. Actual flexible domestic work is coming soon, the moment the military gets bored and releases some knowledge and/or people have finished making money from helping amazon pack boxes and starts making money from normal people instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVlhMGQgDkY

medicine: same machines already being used to detect cancer and heart conditions more accurately than humans, as well as folding proteins to create new medicines. Not sure what more he wants..

"If machine learning and big data can’t get us any further than a restaurant reservation" because you know, the current state of machine learning has been around for, what, 12 minutes now and we're still stuck on making restaurant reservations. Def time to call it quits and start over

". But in open-ended conversations about complex issues, such hedges will eventually get irritating, if not outright baffling." — weird that it's pretty difficult to get computers to understand a very ambiguous, illogical and inefficient form of communication. Luckily humans are so much smarter than computers that we can easily process 1-billion+ logical inferences a second and talk to them in an efficient and logical way.

>> Okay you‘ve convinced me

but i've only just started

5 comments
> but I won't be impressed because all of those things are simple

When professionals in the field repeatedly say "X requires general intelligence" and yet time after time we solve them with shockingly simple techniques, the correct response is not to deride the AI for performing under expectations. It's to recognize that professionals have systematically overestimated the intrinsic difficulty of tasks, even really complex ones like photorealistic image synthesis, and propagate this belief through to everything else they say is hard.

I don't know what the next groundbreaking AI achievement is going to be, but I'd be happy to bet that the solution is going to be simpler than people expect. And while this doesn't necessarily generalize to everything, since there's a selection effect (though I suspect it's secondary), it does generalize to a lot of very important things.

Oh, you never ran into Hugo de Garis?

iirc (it was back in 1997 when I heard him talk), he was promising human level "artilects" about 2015, and super-human intelligence by 2025.

The problem that I have observed, is that the popular press always ignores the 100 experts that say, nope, not going to happen, for the one "visionary", who'll promise whatever they want to hear, as long as somebody else is paying for dinner.

If de Garis is (still) predicting super-human intelligence in under 10 years, then it sounds like he is impressed.
One correction: the military absolutely does not have any more advanced technology than the private sector. Very much the opposite, they've been totally incompetent at figuring out how to build software, or even buying software from the traditional contractors, which is the motivation for eric schmid'ts defense innovation stuff and Google's project maven. Many of the statements of the current DoD secretary flat out admit this stuff (plus if you've had the misfortunate working for a traditional DoD contractor it's also laughably obvious).
I came to say roughly this but you’ve said it with more style.

Who is to say that in 15 years we won’t make difference-of-kind advancements in, say, natural language sythesis by virtue of a broad patchwork, piecewise sort of landscape made up of advancements in restaurant reservations, calendar items, customer service chatbots, etc.

Each solution region would be driven by incremental research and profitability constraints, and it’s fine to point at any one solution region and say, well that probably won’t generalize to something “AI complete” in natural language.

But as each bespoke arm of research gets more advanced, we could learn metaheuristics about selecting between them, or distilling common solution architectures.

People, even an informed academic in this article, still seem to appeal to some vague idea that “real” human level skill at a generic sythetic task like natural language has some mystical greater theoretical structure to it.

But time and again we see that the steady accumulation of a frankensteined patchwork of many approaches and many bespoke, situation-specific architectures can end up with uncanny, competitive results on tasks of import.

I’m not saying there’s anything about current fashionable methods that gives any guarantees, and of course there is always overblown hype, especially in corners of industry that try to use that hype for credential signalling and rent-seeking opportunities.

But it just seems short-sighted to come across as so certain that ugly patchworks of different siloed solutions could never be glued together or agglomerated to make difference-of-kind improvements. In fact, applied machine learning seems to a historical trail of exactly this type of patchwork.

Are there going to be cases when a whole new theoretical paradigm is needed to reach some performance goal? Yes, of course. And any sensible current practitioner would admit as much.

But this is a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

The "simplicity" of tasks that mostly just require a lot of computing power was recognized over thirty years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravec%27s_paradox

> it is comparatively easy to make computers exhibit adult level performance on intelligence tests or playing checkers, and difficult or impossible to give them the skills of a one-year-old when it comes to perception and mobility - 1988