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> has bought ineffective products like eye cream based on five-star reviews, including some that appeared fake. Now she only looks at two-, three- and four-star reviews when she shops on Amazon.
My strategy has always been to read the 1-star and 2-star reviews, most recent first, unless there are so few total (e.g. under a dozen) that I may as well just read them all.
Positive reviews, even 4-star and (enough of the) 3-star tend to be useless to me. What I want to know is why people hated the product. If it's exclusively for reasons that don't apply to me or for risks/problems inherent to the type of product, then I have what I need.
Negative reviews are often also where the best referals to alternative products can be. Of course, those have a high enough likelihood of being posted by a shill that one can't assume it's actually better without reading those reviews, too, but it can beat grinding through all of Amazon's search results.
All that said, the worsening counterfeit and delivery situation means I've bought hardly anything in the past year, after a progressive decline in buying the year before.
Often I wish I could just sort by least 1-start reviews or least 1-2-star reviews. Most products you don't need an amazing version, you just need one that isn't crap.
The only problem with this strategy is that competing vendors will start leaving 1 star reviews on reviews of rival products.
That said, I haven't bought much either and switched to vendors that somewhat vouch for their products like Best Buy, Walmart, Monoprice, etc
I like this method of "selection by rejection". It makes sense. People like stuff for a variety of reasons, what one ought to be looking for is adversarial feedback. But how do you choose which bad reviews to ignore ?
Years ago, I felt like I could trust that the prices, selection, and quality of items I found on Amazon were relatively predictable. Now that it's a bazaar rather than a store, I can't trust anything and unless I want to get ripped off I have to apply an exhausting level of scrutiny to each item purchased. As a result, I don't shop there nearly as much as I once did.
How is Amazon thriving? I don't get it. Don't other people have the same experience?
I feel the same way about Amazon. What tipped me over the line was a counterfeit pair of Ecco shoes. I mean, seriously? You cannot safely buy air or water filters, SD cards, batteries, and so much more, but you have to even now be super cautious about buying shoes from Amazon? Its just not worth the convenience. It feels almost like an abusive relationship.
I've started experimenting with Walmart to replace lots of the stuff I usually get from Amazon. Unsure about them yet.
Unless Amazon ditches the 3rd party sellers, I won't be back.
People who get what they ordered aren't newsworthy? I buy all manner of stuff from amazon and haven't had much trouble. One time I got something that wasn't quite right (my two pack was missing one) but they immediately refunded the cost and I got to keep it. Reports of fraud have been somewhat concerning, but I see no reason to change anything. Their experiments with their own courier delivery service have been far more disruptive, but the great AI in the cloud has learned my address work best with UPS and everything is back on track.
The vast majority of people still think it's the old days. Until all of seller fraud at Amazon hits the mainstream news, they will still believe that Amazon is a land of legitimate abundance and good deals.
Same here. I get really stressed when I go on Amazon because there is so much junk there. I also used to buy from Newegg a lot but since they started selling from third party suppliers it's also a mess.
Nowadays I feel almsot more confident to buy on ebay from sellers that have thousands of ratings with a high positive percentage.
They do, however it is easy to miss the 'bulk' rush. Which is to say that the bulk of the people using Amazon aren't particularly careful so they just click the 'buy it' link and never think twice about it.
As a result the services suffer, and they will continue to do so which then opens up a niche for a new seller to come along. Ebay has suffered the same cyle.
My brother ordered a 6 pack of tea boxes, seller "accidentally" sent 1. His reviews were full of the same complaint but I thought Amazon a2z guarantee was still around and would fix it. It wasn't, I couldn't even contact Amazon about it. All the order help would lead to emailing the seller.
It's not hard or unreasonable to restrict yourself to items shipped and sold by Amazon, and to do a little extra searching for things outside that bubble. (usually just fakespot and reading a few good and bad reviews)
I always leave a review with pictures and as much info as I can if the product is shit and not what I expected or what the reviews suggested to help the next folks. I actually bought a jump rope on Amazon that was "Amazon's Choice" and it turned out to be crap. I found that exact same jump rope at Walmart for $4.99 instead of $25 on Amazon and went to war with the seller.
He emailed me repeatedly offering refunds or a new rope, etc to change my review. This only encouraged me to post more pictures and comparisons. Eventually, they just added like 20 reviews to push mine down.
I don't buy anything on AMZN anymore unless it is something where I know I'm getting the real thing at a good price. Typically you can find those cheap Chinese items on AMZN for a lot less at Walmart or a local store. It's a shame that AMZN isn't able to police their reviews culling all the fakery.
The seller fraud started happening when Amazon let international vendors on the platform so they could compete with Alibaba. It's virtually impossible for Amazon to police all their international vendors given how hard things like verification are internationally. Even when they do ban a vendor, it's very easy for them to pop up again under a different name.
you guys are basing it all on personal anecdotes.
amazon was always the wild west. since 2009 when I started to use amazon heavily I remember having to always police myself to never buy from items without the "sold by amazon" note.
it has nothing to do with evil foreigners or going down to alibaba level. amazom was always the alibaba of the US.
I read the article (I pay for WSJ) and there's one area they didn't mention: books.
I see a lot of books, especially business, productivity, time management books, written by authors who churn out poor quality (but legit, in that they're not filled with nonsense which is another scam) books by the dozens that mostly are the same book but freshened or rearranged. These books are low-cost so I've taken a chance on a few of them.
What made me try them if they have hundreds of legit looking reviews and 4 and 5 star ratings. I imagine there's some sort of "farm" for Amazon self-publishers that does this.
There are a number of services that will generate fluff reviews for your book. You take a risk, though, because if Amazon detects them, you're getting delisted. Also, Amazon will flag your book if your friends and family review it.
It really is mind blowing how spam has transisitioned from email to reviews on everything online. I wonder what laws apply in terms of having fraudulent reviews on something and it is considered advertising. I assume laws would have to be changed.
[https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advert...]
> The Amazon spokeswoman said it determined that fewer than 1% of hundreds of millions of reviews were fake last month...
Maybe they meant this to be a positive statement, but to me this just means they're not catching anything except the most egregious cases. Any cursory look at a popular product makes this look like a silly statement.
It’s just Amazon tricking the reader. If they have hundreds of million of reviews, and 1% are fake, there are millions of fake reviews.
How many of the reviews from 1998 are fake vs 2018? What is the probability of a marginal review being fake. My guess is 15-20%.
>The Amazon spokeswoman said it determined that fewer than 1% of hundreds of millions of reviews were fake last month...
Oh, good. So there are only millions of fake reviews on Amazon. That's just fine, then. Not a problem.
Why are they boosting rank for clicks? Of course that won't work. They know who actually bought the thing. Even that can be gamed, but it gets expensive to buy and ship stuff to yourself.
There's a good podcast on this recently from reply-all.
Apparently in many cases the expense of buying and shipping (usually to a random US address) is well worth a top product placement spot.
It used to work, from what I hear. It doesn't anymore. There was a time not so long ago when a large number of wishlist adds translated to ranking.
1 in out of every 5 items I buy from Amazon India has this small letter inside which goes something like "leave us a 5 star review and email me the screenshot to get 50 rs by paytm." And more often than not these products are filled with 5 star verified reviews.
The worst offender recently has been a fitness tracker called Goqii which is a completely useless gadget imo but has more than 22k positive reviews on amazon.
There have recently been some massive purges of reviews, including many real/organic reviews. I've heard from many sellers that they lost a ton of reviews on listings, even though they never made fake reviews or otherwise messed with it. It seems to be specific categories and some are saying it's concentrated in categories where Amazon has their own PL brands.
Technical question maybe someone can answer: Why doesn't Amazon just block all incoming connections from .bd, etc. ? If not block then depreciate the activities locations where this problem occurs frequently?
I have actually written a script in the past specifically to periodic collect and update all Bangladesh IP address blocks assigned from ARIN. They are the #1 source of spam on the web sites I work on. I had to go to these lengths due to getting non-stop calls all night from content teams needing help stopping them from destroying the web sites.
You think click farms in Bangladesh can't establish VPN endpoints in the USA? You can even get VPN endpoints that are specifically in Comcast, Verizon FiOS, charter, CenturyLink residential IP space so that it doesn't look like your traffic is coming from some /22 assigned to a Colo/dedicated server hosting company.
I bet it's just one big echo chamber of people copy/pasting each other, just like every trend on social media (memes, etc).
Because VPNs to American servers are dirt cheap.
then they'll use some company like luminati to provide them with residential IPs instead.
I always get the impression Amazon doesn't care about customers until they complain, and then they are suddenly very nice.
Why not add some obvious QA features like: - reporting fake reviews - reporting fake/misleading listings - reporting fake reviewers - reporting listings where the product has been changed for something else
Many other glaringly obvious issues: - vastly different products listed on the same page (to gather more reviews & sales = better ranking) - shipping cost > item cost - sellers promising a refund for a good review (especially to those that complain) - fake 'only 1 left in stock' listings - always-on-sale listings - ...
Also while I'm complaining, as a frequent Amazon shopper there are a few missing filter/search options, in particular: - listing age - not deliverable to your address/country (frequent issue I have with cross-border shopping)
http://archive.is/ynSqS works for me.
It's 49 cents at Blendle if you want to reward good journalism:
https://blendle.com/i/wsj-com/how-sellers-trick-amazon-to-bo...
Weren't there sites where you could check if reviews and ranking are real or not? They used a pretty impressive algorithm. I wonder why amazon doesn't use something similar.
The only one I know of is fakespot https://www.fakespot.com/, and they also have browser extensions.
I've never had a fraudulent item purchased that I'm aware of. I hear this all the time on HN when Amazon comes up, yet haven't once experienced it and have been using Amazon for years.
If it did happen to me though, it would definitely sour my experience.
I've never bought a fraudulent item, either -- nor have I paid an exorbitant price -- but that's because I'm rigorous when I shop. What I said in my original post is that it takes more effort to shop now.
I don't know what to think about you and other "Amazon is all hunky dory" posters not seeing ripoff garbage all over -- because I see it literally everywhere. Do you not actually shop that much there? (Unlikely, otherwise you wouldn't have posted.) Are you easily duped? (Uncharitable and unlikely for HN demographic.) Do you buy only books?
Not too long ago, I bought three Philips Hue bulbs off of amazon from a reseller.
They came in real Hue packaging. Opening the packages, not a one of them contained a Hue bulb. One was even an incandescent!
I got a refund for all three and got real bulbs.
Same here, but it's because I find it very easy to recognize the Chinese "brands", signs that a product is just Prime arbitrage, fake reviews, etc. If you want a selection of these lower-quality listings, take a look at lightning deals. I think actual counterfeits are fairly rare compared to just garbage knockoffs, but I also don't buy many products that are highly counterfeited.
I would say 50 percent or more of the items I buy from Amazon are counterfeit. I suspect clothes, almost all books and electronics are fake. Amazon tacitly accepts it to boost their sales figures.
Is there a reason Amazon doesn't limit reviews to verified purchasers? I always assumed unverified purchase reviews were fake or else biased reviews in exchange for a free product.
Even big companies like Cherry behave fraudulent on Amazon, shipping different items under well known legacy product names. Amazon has a huge problem with its sellers. It is time for them to solve this.
Sounds like AMZ is infected with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_bomb
As a collector of books on (among other topics) politics & religion, I've been thinking of buying a 73 volume full size Schottenstein Edition of the Talmud for quite a while. However, these usually go for > $2,000.00 in the US and > $3,000.00 in Europe. So you can consider my surprise when I stumbled on a new set at Amazon that's sold at $509, with only $14.95 shipping to Europe.
So I ordered the set. After some days, I get a notification that the set has been shipped. But no tracking number, which is odd for a shipment of such value.
After a week or two, I contacted the seller if they could give me a tracking number or at least confirm the address they sent it to. They gave no tracking number a confirmed the shipping address, but left out the country.
So I asked in response if they could confirm the country. I then was told that the address the shipment was sent to was the address in my contact info, without details.
So I again contacted them with the request to explicitly confirm the shipping country. Then I was told that they could not find me other and therefore refunded my money.
Two weeks later, I went back to Amazon and noticed they re-listed the item (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01A68XF9I/).
Then, I noticed several buyers complaining about items sent to the wrong address, packages being incomplete, etc :
* "1 out of 5 stars I ordered Love is in the Earth, a Kaleidoscope of Crystals. 7/30/18 -I received the wrong book in error Love is in the Earth- Laying on of Stones. I have contacted the store through Amazon, received a response and sent photos of the wrong book cover, back, spine and invoice. Awaiting response"
* "I have been back and forth with this seller about sending us two copies of the wrong ISBN. They have yet to provide a full refund for both books we ordered. They only provided a 50% refund at this point, and it has been more than a week of attempting to get our money back. Do not trust this seller to provide you with the correct items!"
* "Only one book out of the 10 book set arrived. A mistake was made. The seller responded timely and was very courteous."
* "The book arrived well before the expected delivery date but it was definitely not the version I ordered. The description was for the beautiful UK cover edition and I received the cheap mass market paperback production version. Contacted the seller and after multiple e-mails back and forth and pictures sent they ended up refunding the cost of the book so I ended up just paying for shipping."
* "The order that was listed as delivered on June 26, 2018 never arrived. The seller had us confirm our shipping address on July 7, 2018. Now it is July 26, 2018 and the missing order issue has not been resolved. Time for a complete refund of purchase price and shipping costs bookercafe."
* "I have not received my order and it is saying delivered. Can you tell me who signed for this? ORDER NUMBER 113-3032376-5177066"
* "I have purchased two books from this store and one of these orders had been canceled without notification and a fake tracking number has been submitted for the second one. Please refund as soon as possible."
* "lists books they actually don't have. now I have to be troubled to ensure I am refunded."
* "My book never arrived at my mailing address, even though there was a USPS tracking number. When I contacted USPS, they told me it was delivered to the shipping address listed on the packing slip (which was not mine). I contacted the seller, and they told me it must have been a bad tracking number. Haven't heard back...haven't received the book either. I have now submitted a refund request."
* "1 out of 5 stars Another reviewer called it a scam when the book didn't arrive even though there was a tracking number that said it did. Seller told him it was sent to another address. Guess what? Same thing happened to me. A bad tracking number and the excuse that it was sent to a different address. I never heard from them again after they said they would check into it. I've submitted a refund request."
* "I ordered five books from them. One arrived OK, the other four never came but they kept my money for almost a month. One had no tracking number, the other three all had fake tracking numbers, re-used numbers that showed the books were delivered to three other cities. I had to fight them and contact Amazon to get a promise of refunds, and they are still stalling. Cheaters"
* ...
Overall, however, customers appear satisfied and the store has a feedback score of 91% for 335 ratings.
However, judging by the fact that 309 of those reviews were from the last 90 days, the store seems to exist only about 4 to 6 months on Amazon.
Something else I noticed, is that I get their > 400,000 results and that there are quite a few items listed for the same amount of $509, most of which I can't imagine are actually worth that much and are sold by other sellers at much lower prices :
* Douglas Adams: The Hitchhiker Trilogy (https://www.amazon.com/Douglas-Adams-Hitchhiker-Trilogy/dp/B...)
* Diablo III: Book of Cain (https://www.amazon.com/Diablo-III-Deckard-Blizzard-Entertain...)
* The American Pageant (https://www.amazon.com/American-Pageant-fifteenth-Kennedy-Ha...)
* Calculus: Concepts and Applications (https://www.amazon.com/Calculus-Concepts-Applications-Paul-F...)
* The Free Range Cook: Simple Pleasures (https://www.amazon.com/Free-Range-Cook-Simple-Pleasures/dp/B...)
* O'Connor Violin Method Book I and CD (https://www.amazon.com/OConnor-Violin-Method-Book-CD/dp/B005...)
* Winnie the Pooh Complete Collection 30 Books Box Set (https://www.amazon.com/Winnie-Complete-Collection-Books-Slip...)
* No Excuses! The Power of Self-discipline (https://www.amazon.com/Excuses-Power-Self-discipline-Brian-H...)
* Straight White Men (https://www.amazon.com/Straight-White-Young-March-Paperback/...)
* Sequential Spelling 3: Teacher's Guide (https://www.amazon.com/Sequential-Spelling-3-Teachers-Guide/...)
* ...
The item I ordered has been re-listed at the same price point, a bit after I received my refund for it.
Interestingly, there are now 6 sellers offering the same set with "Used - Good" condition and prices ranging from $506.00 to $548.32. There were only 3 sellers when I checked last time. All of these 6 sellers have a storefront with 300,000 - 700,000 items in them. And this includes a new shop that hasn't sold anything yet!
Since I received my refund As the store I ordered from is the only one shipping to Europe, I asked them if they'd ship be willing to sell it to me again. First they were eager and even offered a 30% discount. When I asked if they could add tracking for a second order, the tone became less friendly and I was asked to remove my (negative) feedback for the initial order.
I'd also asked an explanation for what went wrong with my order but haven't received any.
I also came to notice that this seller uses a kind of broken English very reminiscent of the broken English of sellers on AliExpress. So I suspect that her native language is Chinese and this account is a good example of a Chinese scammer account. And the same probably applies as well to the other 5 accounts I spotted which sell the same item at roughly the same place.
AliExpress sure has its flaws, but I never really had that much issues with ordering on AliExpress. And I certainly never came close to experiences as strange / fishy on AliExpress as my recent experience with third party sellers on Amazon... which really surprises me, as this type of seller should be easy to spot, even by an algorithm!
I'll definitely think twice next time I see an interesting book - or set of books - on Amazon that's sold by a third party seller! I feel like Amazon urgently has some serious closet cleaning to do!
Outline link - https://outline.com/gzShMr