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It's fascinating how the security theatre has gotten so big that now it basically just rolls forward under its own momentum. It's been around long enough that people accept it as normal, it serves no other purpose than to employ the unemployable and fill contractors' coffers, and it seems that no entity is able to stop or dismantle it.
> It's been around long enough that people accept it as normal, it serves no other purpose than to employ the unemployable and fill contractors' coffers

It serves the purpose of removing liability for security from airlines, which is the major reason why it was created. It also serves the purpose of getting people used to progressively more intrusive government inspection during routine situations.

> and it seems that no entity is able to stop or dismantle it.

There are entities that are able to, but they don't want to, because they like what it does.

This is a pretty cynical viewpoint but I agree. It’s clear that TSA doesn’t do much. Someone I know has acidentially brought a pocketknife through security multiple times without it being found. They keep it in my backpack as a regular item and just forgot to take it out.
I was flying form Twin Falls to L.A. and when I went through the metal detector I set it off. So, what to the TSA people do? They don't use the metal detector wand, they take some paper and rub it on my hands and put it in a machine to detect for explosive residue/powder...
It's also interesting to compare the prevailing opinion here on the TSA with that of the FAA, given that they serve the same industry.

It appears that most people on HN feel that TSA regulations are pointless theater and should be weakened or eliminated, while the FAA is to be blamed for not exercising their regulatory power strongly enough (especially in light of the 737 MAX).

Both agencies seem to follow a similar methodology: when there's an incident, analyze the cause and enact regulations that would have prevented it, building up a system leads to fewer incidents over time. And they seem to have led to similar results -- over the past decade, there has been only one passenger fatality on commercial flights within the US due to accidents, and zero due to hijackings/bombings.

Why the difference in opinion? Is it that TSA regulations are personally annoying to travelers while FAA regulations are mostly invisible to passengers?

Maybe increasing friction in air travel is a morally good environmental service, a lesser of two evils.
I'd say the last 15+ years of air travel has been pretty safe in the US. To say the security has accomplished nothing is a stretch.
About a year ago I was at an airport (Boston? New Jersey?) outbound that had a sign or TV monitor saying "Great news, you no longer need to take your laptop out of your bag!"

I read this sign as a TSA worker shouted every 30 seconds to the shuffling line about how everyone needed to take out all laptops, "ipads", cameras, etc.

I wonder if it was a pilot program. Or more likely, just part of the constantly shifting fabric of pointless theater. I fully expect these new machines are primarily to sell machines, and not to fulfill any other purpose.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard "listen to me, not the sign" from a TSA agent, I'd have enough money that the TSA would detain me for questioning about why I was traveling with that much money.
Yeah, it's always up to the whims of the underpaid TSA agent who happens to be there that day. Back when iPads were new, I got scolded for taking it out of my bag, and scolded for leaving it in my bag, by agents at the same airport on two trips a few weeks apart.
>"Or more likely, just part of the constantly shifting fabric of pointless theater. I fully expect these new machines are primarily to sell machines, and not to fulfill any other purpose."

Indeed that's the more likely. I recently had a TSA moron tell me that my iPad did not need to come out because "it's not a computer." I explained that it might not be a laptop but it was still very much a computer. You can't make this stuff up.

It seems every airport has its own different security theatre just to keep us on our toes.

In Newark, I put my backpack in the plastic bin. Vegas, put the bag directly on the conveyor belt. LaGuardia, stack the bins after picking up your items. Vegas, do not stack the bins.

Buy TSA friendly backpack. Problem solved.

Bought mine at BestBuy. Samsonite 5580680. The zipper goes all the way down so the bag is split in 2, a pouch holding your laptop and the other half holds the rest of your stuff. This lets TSA X-Ray equipment inspect your laptop only without cables, cellphone, and gadgets on the way.

Maybe it was for TSA Pre-Check
The moment I pull out my ipad and macbook and entrust the fate of around 3000 dollars worth of electronics to the competence and benevolence of government officials who barely give a shit is my least favorite part of the travel experience
I don’t know why, but for me it’s the shoes. My laptop bag makes it fairly easy to take my laptop out and put it back in, but dealing with taking my shoes on and off really fucking bugs me. It’s totally irrational, I know.
Imagine traveling with five laptops, overseas, because your corporate InfoSec policy doesn't let you ship laptops to your coworkers. Then imagine being picked at random for additional screening and being asked to let $10,000 in company assets roll on through out of site while you get the pat-down.

The only time I ever made polite insistence to a TSA Agent, that day.

I accidentally left my MacBook in the bin at MIA. I didn’t notice till I got home a few states away. It made it to lost and found and my father was able to pick it up for me. I was pretty shocked. This was before Pre. Since I’ve had Pre it’s not necessary to remove the laptop.
But when are we going to have the real discussion about security theater?
Next, how about removing the ridiculous limitations on carrying a bottle of water with you?
What’s security theater?

The elephant deterrence strategy?

Lets get it on the table.
I guess by "theater" you mean that there's no actual purpose to taking your laptop out of the bag other than making people feel better? I have a hard time believing that's true. There's people who spend their whole career understanding airline security and (since I know nothing about it) I'm inclined to trust they aren't wasting my time.
"While the CT pilot program didn’t show reduced wait times at participating airports, the agency is expecting the technology will speed up lines as passengers and staffers get used to the new processes. "

So, they just agreed to $97 million worth of new technology with no proven benefit. Great.

New technology with no proven benefit in the airport security context, which is going to be applied to every passenger's luggage for no extra charge, and will retain it's tremendous cost in the truly life-saving medical environment.
Sadly it isn't even faster and requires more staff to operate.

While the CT pilot program didn’t show reduced wait times at participating airports, the agency is expecting the technology will speed up lines as passengers and staffers get used to the new processes. Pekoske said he expected more staff to be needed initially as the new machines are put in place.

They're planning on using "AI" (Machine learning/Computer Vision) to slowly automate identification. They already do this now, but are limited by the quality of images.

> For example, TSA is working to develop new algorithms that use machine learning approaches to discriminate between threats and benign objects, making the screening process more effective and efficient. Machine learning also offers a way to screen for all prohibited items (explosives, firearms, sharp objects, etc.) automatically. It is anticipated that machine learning algorithms not only will improve security effectiveness but also will support automation in future security systems, thereby enhancing operation efficiency and improving passenger experience through increased throughput and decreased false alarm rates. More broadly, machine learning algorithms can be applied to assess security performance and provide system-level improvements beyond performance enhancements realized at individual screening operations.

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/TSA%20-...

It is worth noting the limitations of such techniques: Familiarity. Back when Apple switched their Macbooks from HDDs to SSDs, a lot of early purchasers got flagged at TSA because their laptop didn't match a profile (i.e. looking for a spinning stack of platters).

With CT technology, we could see even more nuanced differences get flagged for unusual.

We’ve had this (or something similar) at Amsterdam Schiphol for a while now. With the scanners here, everything stays in the bag, electronics and liquids. The time savings are quite noticeable, because people are so slow at taking apart their baggage. Now they just throw on their bag, take off their coat, and maybe their boots, and they’re done, easily saving 1/3 of the time spent at other airport security lines.
Wow new technology? What now-lost mysterious technology was it that allowed us to get along fine without taking our laptops out of our bags 20 years ago?
The lack of fear?

Not in passengers but in the officials: what if somebody sneaks something in, and blows a plane? To alleviate that, a "we are doing all we can" CYA strategy should be in place.

Global entry/TSA pre-check is the best $100 you can spend (or not since the application fee is covered by a lot of premium credit cards)

Keep shoes, keep laptop in bag, keep jacket on, way shorter line...I’m simulateously happy that not everyone is doing it and dumbfounded why anyone who travels more than a few times a year wouldn’t have it by now.

I don't buy precheck out of principal. You shouldn't have to pay extra for a less invasive security experience
Just get TSA pre-check. It's so freaking easy and it makes airport security checkpoints not a big deal at all.
Pretty sure they had this at McCarren when I was there late last year, just had to dump my bag in the tray and walk through the metal detector (didn't even need to take my shoes off - although they had a sniffer dog earlier in the line)

Seemed to work OK, well, until my bag got pushed into the "additional screening" line and had to open it up for the guy to look at

But now TSA has started asking me to remove any food items from my bags for the scanner. Does anyone know why?
It's revolting how much money will be spent by the American government on mandatory luggage CT scans, especially considering the cost such scans have in the medical context where lives are truly at stake...
Sounds like this will be less damaging for photographic film? Not that the carry on x-ray scanners were bad in the first place but the less damage potential the better.
I was always amazed how I had to take my laptop out ... but I carried cameras, gaming devices, all sorts of other electronics in bags and nobody cared.
I remember when I was in Changi Terminal 4 airport in Singapore few months back I do not need to take out my laptop from the scanner.
A dowsing rod would work as well except it would be hard to justify the fat contracts awarded to friends and former colleagues.
Yesssssssss! Technology can be awesome.
CT scanners? Can I get a lead apron to wear in the screening area please?
And it only took 17 years for them to figure out a way to make it happen! Who says America can’t get things done anymore.