Item — HN Reader

From the comments here, it seems people have not studied any philosophy and are treating these folks as selfish and thieving. Not so; as a living organism you need the minimum to feed, clothe and house yourself. This can be done in any manner (in ancient history Sages/Monks used to "beg" for food which was an accepted norm) and it simply is that some ways are looked down upon in today's society. Nothing more. For some more accounts on solitary living and solitude see;

1) Read up on Dick Proenneke - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke He lived alone for 30 years (from age 50 to 80) in the Alaskan Wilderness; built his cabin by hand and filmed his activities. Those documentaries and journals are a must watch/read.

2) Into Great Silence - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_Great_Silence A beautiful documentary on Carthusian monks in the French Alps.

11 comments

Breaking into people's property to take what they paid for is not ethical because it violates the golden rule of that underpins most mainstream religions: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

If you want to beg, fine, but this man would burglarize cabins on the lake in order to get food.

Potato Potato.... Depends how you look at the potato... Who gave you the right to take it from the ground and eat it ? Who gave you the ground ? Is it wrong if someone planted it ? Is it wrong if it grows there naturally. Is it wrong if you take one because your hungry, or is it wrong to take a ton in case you get hungry ? See it is a slippery slope of ownership... Are you owned ? But you still pay taxes to people that own you ?

Oh boy.

Ethics is relative and changes over time and varies by place, but is mostly irrelevant it sounds for him, which is good.

What makes you think this person would be opposed to people taking food he had stockpiled?

This man wasn't stockpiling any of his own food that he was producing himself. He was only stealing it from others. If he hadn't been able to steal, he'd have starved to death. A society consisting solely of people like him would collapse completely within days; you can't have only takers and no producers.

From the comments here, it seems people have not studied any philosophy and are treating these folks as selfish and thieving

You might want to go reread those philosophy books that you tout so mightily. The subject at hand is a thief by any definition of the word. Comparing him to, say, the Buddha is unskilled thinking at best.

There are fundamental reasons why stealing is "looked down upon" in most social systems, not just our current one.

Having said that, I am prepared to accept that it's probably a good idea for society to give individuals a "way out" (live in solitude by choice). Otherwise, they might do some unfortunate things to themselves and/or others.

Maybe some areas of woodland should be sectioned off for people who want to live in a self-made cabin and sustain themselves. No developers or renting allowed, just solitary people and maybe communes.

This is the history of how US Western territories and States were created.

But don't you think there is a big difference in people who lived in and off the wilderness, than someone who lived of by stealing (and causing fear)?

Begging for alms was not just a way to obtain food. In the Buddha's time, it was a method to keep one's ego in check and also to dissolve caste and class boundaries.

Right, there is always a rationalization.

Actually the Buddha was the son of the chief in a fair-sized republic who had every luxury available to him. He specifically left home and began to beg for his food for the social/political purposes I mentioned. It was a huge deal for a twice-born Kshatriya lord to eat food from a lower caste person, amounting to treason against his society. If you’re interested, please read about this before making up your mind.

Looked down upon by today's society, yesterday's society, and tomorrow's society (if there is one). In my vernacular, "living off grid" doesn't mean "taking what you need from society but not contributing anything back".

Except there are lots of ways to feed yourself that don't involve stealing. Sure, it is ethical to steal food if that is your only option, but if you choose to live off of stolen food, I don't think that is ethical, just like it would be unethical for a well off person to leave a restaurant without paying.

It's a fascinating subject. And not easy to find good reading material about.

So thanks for the book recommendations !

I wonder: in most of these stories someone who loves solitude goes and lives his life.

But is there any reading material on how to learn to love solitude ? To learn to be in solitude ?

I am not aware of any one book which will teach you "How to love and live in Solitude":-) But the domain of Philosophy shows you the importance of "turning inward", "resting in oneself" and in general "living apart from the ceaseless and inane activity of the world".

The Ancient Hindu, Buddhist and Greek philosophical texts are the forerunners. The concept of "Renunciation"(Sanskrit: Sannyasa) under the Vedanta school in Hinduism is worth studying. One excellent and succinct text is the "Ashtavakra Gita" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtavakra_Gita). There are plenty more Hindu and Buddhist texts on the subject.

The Greek schools, in particular Stoicism; were popularized by the Romans. Here you have the usual suspects i.e. the works of Seneca, Cicero, Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius.

Finally, the Essays of Michel De Montaigne contain one "On Solitude" (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3600/3600-h/3600-h.htm#link2...) which has been published as a book under "Penguin Great Ideas" series; See https://www.amazon.com/Solitude-Penguin-Great-Ideas/dp/01413...

PS: I believe some of the Christian theologians/philosophers (St. Augustine?) have also written something on the subject though i don't know much about those works.

and in which philosophical systems (that you studied) did monks and sages justify stealing from others? (in any period, in any culture).

genuinely curious.

> This can be done in any manner

But should it? Was there any society that ever looked at thieving kindly?

Think of it this way: how many people (family excluded) are you willingly feeding and clothing? If you can justify them stealing from you then giving it away is only philosophically different (societal and legal points aside).

He is clearly a thief:

> Knight survived by breaking into these cabins and a community centre and stealing supplies.

Let him break into your house and take what he wants.