A two word solution: Socialised medicine.
The civilised world does it, about time the USA caught up.
Socialised medicine is not perfect, but the USA spends the most for the worst results. How American!
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Nationalistic flamebait is not allowed here. Please don't post like this to HN again, regardless of which nation you favor or disfavor.
You’re mixing up two different things: costs, and who pays the costs. There is little reason to believe that lack of “socialized medicine” is responsible for the higher costs, because publicly-run health systems are actually in the minority as far as universal health care systems. For the most part they rely on private service providers just like the US. (And insurance company profits account for a tiny fraction of the overall cost difference—tens of billions out of $1.5 trillion in higher costs.)
The problem in the US is that healthcare is expensive, so we can afford less for the same money. It’s the same with things like public transit or education. If it costs New York seven times as much to build a subway as it does Paris, New York will just have less miles of subway. Likewise, the US spends as much public money per person on healthcare as in European countries already. But that same amount of money doesn’t cover everyone.
America’s healthcare costs are so expensive _because_ of profit-taking by middlemen. In Ontario, the providers _are_ private (my doctor runs his own business), but their rates are set by the province and he is paid for _most_ of his services by billing the province. Even when private insurance is used (e.g., for dentists), the payment rate is set by the province and not by the private insurers (they may determine how much of that they will cover, but the customary charges are set by the province).
It’s amazing how much more affordable healthcare is when obscene corporate profits aren’t part of the equation.
Which middlemen are you talking about? If you mean "private insurers", the numbers here aren't secret, and while we pay more for health benefits administration than other countries, that expense makes up a rather small part of the picture; you could bring health benefits administration to $0 and people still wouldn't be able to afford health care.
Actually you are.off the mark. Most of European countries have either a highly government-managed healthcare (eg UK) or one that is heavily regulated as regards pricing and services and where large parts are managed by the state but with some private offers (eg France, Germany, most places). There is simply no civilised country apart from the US where you go for the emergency, get checked and receive an aspirin and receive a $10k bill. There are strict limits to what medical providers, pharmacies and insurance providers can charge. The same insulin shot costs several times as much in the US than in Europe.
You just said the same thing Rayiner said.
Socialized Medicine might solve the payment problem for people that can't afford it but I lived under the Canadian System of Health Care (OHIP) and much prefer the Health Care I have in the USA (TX). The service/quality of care I receive in the USA is far superior in my opinion.
Here is a breakdown of Ontario, Canada's debt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_government_debt
>Health and education together account for more than 50% of Ontario's spending ($61.3B and $29.1B, respectively)
If you don't mind paying incredibly high taxes for health care or having other people subsidize it for you, then you will probably enjoy socialized medical care.
> The service/quality of care I receive in the USA is far superior in my opinion.
Sure if you have the means either with money or benefits. But too many people don't, and horror stories about US healthcare are depressingly common.
> If you don't mind paying incredibly high taxes for health care
Not really. For an example comparison
> In 2017, workers in the 37 OECD countries paid slightly more than a quarter of their gross wages in tax, on average. At 22.8 per cent, Canada is actually below that average, and as well is below the U.S. rate of 26 per cent.
https://www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/canadas-taxes-compare-oecd-c...
You already subsidize others health care, that's what insurance is.
There's also another hidden tax on every purchase you make. Companies that offer employee health care are passing that cost along to the checkout.
> If you don't mind paying incredibly high taxes for health care or having other people subsidize it for you, then you will probably enjoy socialized medical care.
I have no problem with my bracket (32%) going up to 50-60% or so if it means I don't have to worry about my parents getting the kind of care they're getting now under the American system.
The best part is that it isn’t that high and the parent you’re responding to is speaking relatively nonsense.
I’m in one of the higher tax brackets in Canada and my _net_ tax rate for 2018 was 28.74%—and that is both _federal_ and _provincial_ taxes.
Per Revenue Canada documentation, the 2019 rates will be: * 15% on the first $47,630 of taxable income, plus * 20.5% on the next $47,629 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 47,630 up to $95,259), plus * 26% on the next $52,408 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $95,259 up to $147,667), plus * 29% on the next $62,704 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over 147,667 up to $210,371), plus * 33% of taxable income over $210,371
Ontario adds on to that:
* 5.05% on the first $43,906 of taxable income, + * 9.15% on the next $43,907, + * 11.16% on the next $62,187, + * 12.16% on the next $70,000, + * 13.16 % on the amount over $220,000
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individ...
I’m in the third tax bracket. My wife and I together would be in the fourth (but income taxes are not blended that way).
So…no, Canadian taxes are not, and have never been as bad as people say. (Before I émigrated, my wife and I made the same amount of money one year—and I paid more in state and US federal taxes than she did, in the 90s.)
And I get healthcare and a healthy society out of it.
Insurance is a form of subsidy, that is inherent in splitting the cost of a shared risk. If you have health insurance and do not need to claim, you are providing a subsidy for those who do and vice versa. You are also, on top of that, subsidising the company itself, assuming it is run to generate profit for owners and investors.
Wait, you get health care? Must be nice.
You’re doing a great job convincing the other side! Words like “uncivilized” and a crack about how bad America is is definitely growing support for your position!
I understand your point, humans are emotional creatures.
But catering to feelings over facts seems directly responsible for a lot of the messes and "leadership" we have across the first world right now. I hope we can grow past it.
"Don't be snarky."
So, Switzerland is not civilized world?
Switzerland has universal[1] medical services and compulsory insurance for all residents with strict limits to prevent the private sector from price gouging. All insurers must offer a basic plan with no limitations on age or conditions, and this plan cannot earn a profit. The cost is a fixed percentage of your income, with a government refund if it goes over.
It is socialized, tax-funded healthcare in everything but name. They merely pay the tax directly to an insurance entity instead of via the government.
That said, Switzerland goes back and forth with Norway for being the 2nd most expensive service, with a significant gap between them and 3rd place.[2]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care [2] https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?r=458175 (unable to link directly to page)
Their system is regulated so you won’t get stuck with $160k bill. Same in Germany.
Well, I got stuck with a $17k bill once. They usually require that I pay the bill first out of pocket, then they settle the difference. Also a series of unfortunate events can happen if you are an immigrant.