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I agree, but unfortunately, end-users just want to buy products that just work without fiddling around with settings, etc.

The HN audience and generally programmers are usually pro-Linux which makes sense, but they keep forgetting that apps like Office, Adobe, etc are only on Windows / Mac which Linux has to resort to fiddling with hacks like Wine which is not enough for an out-of-the-box experience with end-users.

The mindshare, user experience of Mac and Windows just prevents end-users from bothering to try, fiddle and learn Linux just to do serious work for anyone that is not a programmer these days.

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Arguments like this also ignore the success of Chromebooks. The "average" person doesn't actually care about the things you listed. Some professionals might. But the average person isn't a photoshop user, and libreoffice works well enough. A default Ubuntu install doesn't require much if anything in the way of settings mungery, and I recall many a nightmare of getting drivers working on Windows back in the day.

> A default Ubuntu install doesn't require much if anything in the way of settings mungery...

I don't think any user would be bothered in attempting to install Ubuntu to replace Windows unless they are 'tech-savvy' enough or a software engineer. Such users would only see that as a double negative in losing their apps + UX mental model just to get things done. They first have to unlearn Windows/Mac and then replace their missing apps just use the selected Linux OS (Ubuntu, ChromeOS, etc) which just isn't worth it.

> I recall many a nightmare of getting drivers working on Windows back in the day.

Yes, Windows is a nightmare for getting drivers working, but I have heard worse stories of Linux users complaining about X11/Wayland bringing down their desktop plus the graphical issues Wine has when running Windows apps and games.

I'm not going to entertain any more ideas of "users are stupid and therefore cannot figure out an Ubuntu installation". It's extremely simple and I don't have that little faith in the average person. It's not hard, and I'd appreciate it if we dropped this stupid argument once and for all. It's defeatist and false.

>Yes, Windows is a nightmare for getting drivers working, but I have heard worse stories of Linux users complaining about X11/Wayland bringing down their desktop

In the last 10 years? This is no longer a problem.

>plus the graphical issues Wine has when running Windows apps and games.

The "average user" doesn't care. They want to read Facebook. See my previous comment.

> I'm not going to entertain any more ideas of "users are stupid and therefore cannot figure out an Ubuntu installation". It's extremely simple and I don't have that little faith in the average person. It's not hard, and I'd appreciate it if we dropped this stupid argument once and for all. It's defeatist and false.

Realistically the "average user" has better things to do than to install Ubuntu or another OS these days just to get work done. It's even better for Windows users thanks to WSL which gives them less of a reason to switch to a Linux distro or even to buy a Chromebook. Android is a good example of what the mess of the Linux distros should have been but for mobile.

> In the last 10 years? This is no longer a problem.

Well you brought up an anecdote about Windows as so did I for Linux. But as with both graphics cards and their drivers, this is still an eternal issue on the majority of Linux distros, especially those who keep using NVIDIA and Intel.

> The "average user" doesn't care. They want to read Facebook. See my previous comment.

Exactly. Why should the "average user" bother with all that trouble in switching/migrating if Windows / Mac users have everything Linux has to offer but with a sainer environment and established support and ecosystem.