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by alexandercrohde·6y ago·view on hn ↗
Yes.

I'll take it a step further and ask, do adages actually contain any signal at all? If you have a saying "try try again" and another saying "don't bust your head against a brick wall" which one wins? When?

Getting fluent in French is probably best done without a plan, but just practicing a bunch. But I'm sure you can think of several activities where "just try it" is godawful advice. Who says writing is in the former camp? Prove it.

2 comments
>I'll take it a step further and ask, do adages actually contain any signal at all? If you have a saying "try try again" and another saying "don't bust your head against a brick wall" which one wins? When?

Yes, they do and there are certain factors you need to consider before saying they don't contain any signal. Some factors are:

1. What is it really trying to say?

In your example, try and try again does NOT mean try and try the SAME thing again. It just tells you WHAT to do and not how to do it. I don't remember a single invention being invented on the first attempt egs the light bulb.

On the other hand, don't break your head against a brick wall is usually used in the context of trying to change someone else. This adage is a derivative of the observation that human beings don't change unless they want to, which is the absolute truth. This adage is a corollary or a derivative based on that absolute truth.

2. Has it stood the test of time?

I cannot find a source for this particular adage but it would be safe to say that it has stood the test of time.

3. Who said it and in what context?

This ties in well with the second example of my first point. I could come up with a pithy saying which could be true in a very specific context. This does not make it false it just makes it irrelevant to your context.

So yes, they do contain signals you just need to know how to apply them.

>Who says writing is in the former camp? Prove it.

As far as writing goes, you can certainly improve leaps and bounds by writing more. You write some, get feedback on your work, improvise, rinse and repeat. This is certainly true. Why you may ask? Just consider the number of authors[1] whose first language is not English but they write in English. They certainly did not start off by being great English writers, Ayn Rand being the most prolific of them which HN crowd would be familiar with.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exophonic_writers

>> In your example, try and try again does NOT mean try and try the SAME thing again.

Who says? For surfing, "If at first you don't succeed, try try again" may seem to apply. And maybe you get on the board again and nail it. Or maybe you get on the board and get a concussion.

Because aphorisms are just very reductive phrases they contain almost no data. I contrast this with a sentence that has a ton of signal "The average human pregnancy lasts 9 months."

>> don't break your head against a brick wall is usually used in the context of trying to change someone else

I'm not aware of it being specific to the context of people. I think you added, that, which actually makes it closer to what I'm saying, because it's more specific. For a heuristic to be good, it needs to have a clear domain of when it applies and when it doesn't. Otherwise you've just got a box of fortune-cookies and no idea which ones apply.

Adages aren’t really meant to be informational; they’re memory triggers. The phrase “If at first you don’t succeed, try try again” invites comparison between your present situation and prior experiences when you struggled to learn a skill.

Other adages work similarly: they connect disparate memories together based on some abstract similarity and provide a hook that can be used to recall them.

> For a heuristic to be good, it needs to have a clear domain of when it applies and when it doesn't.

I see your point. I believe both of us are saying the same thing albeit using different words. In this case, the domain would be the context in which the aphorism is used, which is exactly what the 3rd point in my parent comment says. As with everything, the context is equally important. When you take anything out of context, there is a high probability that it won't hold. Simply stating an aphorism, without understanding the context is only half knowledge and not actionable which inadvertently reduces the signal.

There is no such thing as universal advice. All advice is useful in some context, but no advice is useful in all contexts. Coaches and mentors can be so effective because they consistently deliver the right advice in the right context. Advice from the internet, on the other hand, is almost always mismatched to the context of the reader.
>> There is no such thing as universal advice. All advice is useful in some context, but no advice is useful in all contexts.

The interesting thing is some advice is pretty good for almost all-contexts (e.g. "If you feel like killing yourself, don't.")

Some advice is very good for its specific context "When playing chess, a knight is worth about 3 pawns."

Some advice sounds good, but is completely impractical or even bad "Never give up, never surrender." "Dance like nobody is watching"

I find, usually the best tidbits of information (e.g. /r/lifeprotips) don't try to be too brief or cutesy. They are fine being specific "It can be rude to joke about when a married couple is going to have kids. They may already be trying"

The advice "there is no such thing as universal advice" is, by its own rule, not universal advice, and therefore serves as its own counter-example.
True, if you interpret “advice” as we do in cryptography to mean “any arbitrary string that could provide an advantage in solving the problem at hand”.