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by calvinmorrison·6y ago·view on hn ↗
"We reject that thinking. If Congress wishes to withdraw its promises, it must say so."

As with so many controversial court rulings like the ACA mandate case, our courts keep getting put into the decision because of the massive failure that congress is. Congress should either fulfill the promise or not, or whatever. instead the judicial bodies end up making legal judgements with big ramifcations that largely should be left to the legislative body.

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> because of the massive failure that congress is

This is a conclusion I'm coming to more and more. It's easy to blame Presidential overreach or Supreme Court overreach, but the Congress seems to be steadily abdicating responsibility while still managing to get very little of substance accomplished.

They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into uselessness. In some ways we're probably fortunate that the other two branches have picked up the slack, as much as we (myself included) like to complain about it.

Madison thought it highly unlikely that people who held immense power would not choose to use it. The Framers' model (and fear) was Rome, and much of our Constitutional design is intended to prevent an American Caesar. (One of the reasons Washington was universally revered was because he acted so contrary to what everyone thought was human nature.)

"Ambition must be made to counteract ambition" he tells us in Federalist 10. The idea of a legislator who would derive self-worth not from actually doing things (good or bad) but rather by approbation from their faction solely for making the other side mad was not something they thought possible.

Ironic, given that these same tendencies were very present around the fall of the Roman republic. Rome had a similar gridlock of opposing positions of power, and similarly fell into a state where little could be accomplished due to the regular undermining and vetoing.

Edit: Since most replies are talking about the empire, I just want to reiterate that my comment was regarding the end of the Republic, which imo is a more analogous situation to modern USA. (Not to say it's identical, of course!)

Well, Congress is only able to abdicate their responsibility because we have departed from our "Constitutional design." All 3 branches now write law, not to mention other unelected government agencies, so Congress is now free to avoid doing their job and point the finger at someone else instead.
Despite their fashionable references to Rome, I think the English Civil War was a stronger influence on their thinking - a king's attempt to establish untrammeled authority leading to a parliamentary backlash that was equally untrammeled.
Madison is still correct, in a way.

The US Congress has incredibly low approval ratings, as a whole. But each individual congressperson enjoys surprisingly high approval from their constituents. I guess Madison just didn't see that those two things could happen at the same time.

It was a good fear. He missed the possibility that congress could choose to not pass laws or enter a revolving industry door where they consult on laws they did.
While in effect it is abdicating, in reality, Congress is spinlocked by indecision.

There are deep divides between the branches of the electorate that have brought the representatives to office, as the United States faces a number of divisive issues. Those divides, and a preference for combat over compromise, leave us deadlocked. The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchement.

When Congress reaches approximate agreement on an issue, particularly an emerging one, it can move fast. See the passage of the PATRIOT Act or the recent move to spend more than $1,000,000,000,000 on COVID-19 economic relief.

> The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchment.

Unfortunately, that just isn't so. The evidence of the last three decades has been that every time the Democrats compromised a little, the Republicans just moved further to the right and re-entrenched themselves.

Except this is demonstrably untrue.

The 115th (2017-2018)[1] Congress had both a Republican House and Senate and it got extremely little done.

Our Congress is completely ineffective.

[1]:Fixed.

Political parties have very intentionally created the deep divides in the electorate. It's not something that just happened, it was something that was made to occur for the benefit of the politicians.

So I'm still putting the blame right on them.

> The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchemen

No, it's not; political opinion in the US is closer to a bimodal than a normal distribution; the center of the current Overton Window is a place where you lose your base while not meaningfully appealing to people inclined to vote for your opponent, plus even if you succeed momentarily when (probably not “because”) you do that (e.g., Bill Clinton), the result is shifting the near pole of the Overton Window toward your opponents’ position which almost invariably results in a similar movement of the far pole maintaining the width of the Window.

A lot of the dynamics of this is tied to the structure of our electoral system; more effectively representative, multiparty systems have different dynamics.

It's not an artifact of division necessarily -- it's that the US government, structurally, has an extraordinarily high number of veto points.

eg in federal legislation: the House (majority); the Senate, representing increasingly tiny numbers of Americans (supermajority, often: cloture); the president, and the supreme court.

Ezra Klein wrote a book about it. https://simonandschusterpublishing.com/why-were-polarized/

> The center is there for the first party that chooses to leave its entrenchement.

1. What sort of compromises with the modern Republican party do you expect the Democrats to have to make, that they haven't already been making?

2. And what will their reward for making them be? Another supreme court appointment unfilled until the president is a Republican? Another crappy compromise healthcare bill that maintains the status quo? Another decade or two of inaction on climate change?

Your comment seems self-conflicting.

As you note, when congress sees an urgent problem worth solving, they move quickly.

When I read, "congress is abdicating its responsibility", it seems to me people are just upset a law they like wasn't passed.

In other words, people want a dictator they agree with, rather than taking the time and effort to change the minds of their fellow citizens on any given issue.

Besides, inaction is often the best path to take, particularly when there isn't a clear winning idea.

I think there are perceived deep divides but those are mostly fictional. e.g. a number of conservatives like the ACA but hate Obamamcare. Propaganda is doing its job of keeping the electorate divided, even if a large number of our aims are actually aligned.
Abdicating some responsibilities and becoming positively petty on the ones they've decided to focus on.

It's like the old joke about Academia: the political infighting is so intense because the stakes are so low.

Congress merely reflects the candidates that we elect and the underlying political sentiments of their constituents. Since they serve shorter terms than judges and are more localized than the President, it's hardly surprising that they are more impacted by the political divide.

If Americans cannot agree on anything, therefore, congress cannot either. People blame congress, but it's the American people who are ultimately responsible.

It may be that the 17th Amendment changing the appointment of Senators to a popular vote from elections by state legislators was a mistake, as "anti-democratic" as that may sound, it may be a good principal in a Republic. The house weighs the popular opinion, the Senate, the will of States.
> They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into uselessness.

They were always intended to be both. Since there had to be such a powerful entity within the government (the power exists, so it has to be put somewhere), the best course of action to prevent any whim of politics doing irreparable damage is to pit congress against itself so that any actions it takes are generally too slow for transient whims to affect it.

Better that the powerful are inefficient.

Our system of government really, really wasn't designed to handle politically polarized parties. We've had partisanship forever but mostly it was about competing for patronage rather than ideology. Then after the Progressive reforms of the turn of the 20th century we had a long period where each party had their liberal and their conservative wings that meant low polarization.
Weirdly, Mazars actually shrinks what I believed was the scope of Congressional power, where in the one instance the House actually attempted to exert equal balance, there now exists a four-part test for validity of presidential subpeonas. Congressional power is squeezed from all sides whenever exerted.
Unfortunately, that precisely the opinion that the Romans came to as well.
That's exactly the problem. Congress is supposed to do the majority of the work.

Not the executive, and not he judicial (it's not even well defined in the Constitution).

The elected body of representatives is supposed to be where the action is.

They've gradually been failing more and more

>They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into uselessness.

That's what many Americans wanted, and voted for. A government that governs least governs best, after all.

The filibuster doesn't help the situation and seems like a mechanism designed to encourage obstruction. Until we do away with it, I fear we'll be stuck with the status quo.
I'm tempted to say that the uselessness of Congress is in indication of something else - we've pushed too much to the federal level. The decades-long tooth-and-nail fighting over healthcare makes me think that an effective system just can't be done federally; there's too much disagreement between states. Why not scrap most of the social programs, cut federal taxes, and let states implement their own?
> They are supposed to be the most powerful branch of government, but instead they have deadlocked themselves into uselessness.

If Congressional lockdown was useless, it would've been fixed. Clearly, there's plenty of interests that favor a Congress/Senate that isn't able to move legislation forward.

> they have deadlocked themselves into uselessness

Are you talking about Congress or the country as a whole?

While congress is idle and obstructionist in a way of refusing to allow votes as opposed to "most bills get a failing vote even after ammendments" I wonder how much of the dysfunction is a matter of failing to scale governance.
It's a feature not a bug. The entire system was designed s/t it is incredibly hard for anyone in Washington to do anything. There are good reasons for that.
If congress doesn't change something, then that means they have determined no change is necessary.

That isn't an invitation for the executive branch (or judiciary) to overreach.

In theory congress could go years without passing a single law, and that would be fine. It would signal that the current laws are sufficient.

(As an aside, congress has ceded much of it's lawmaking authority to federal agencies anyway -- so even if they didn't pass any new laws, the legal code will still change every year.)

A recent dissent by Justice Thomas is elucidating.

"Today’s decision must be recognized for what it is: an effort to avoid a politically controversial but legally correct decision. The Court could have made clear that the solution respondents seek must come from the Legislative Branch. Instead, the majority has decided to prolong [the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS)] initial overreach by providing a stopgap measure of its own. In doing so, it has given the green light for future political battles to be fought in this Court rather than where they rightfully belong—the political branches. Such timidity forsakes the Court’s duty to apply the law according to neutral principles, and the ripple effects of the majority’s error will be felt throughout our system of self-government."

.

This was his dissent on DACA. Agree or disagree with the program that allows undocumented immigrants to stay and go to school, I don't care. It's not legislative, it's not judicial, it was a program by DHS setup under the last administration. Now the court rules the current administration can't undo the program? It's bizzare.

Things like DACA _need_ to be written in stone to avoid forcing the supreme court to become the effective legislator instead of having congress pass a law that enacts it as an actual program.

> If congress doesn't change something, then that means they have determined no change is necessary.

... and therefore the promise is still in force and should be upheld.

> (As an aside, congress has ceded much of it's lawmaking authority to federal agencies anyway -- so even if they didn't pass any new laws, the legal code will still change every year.)

Normally this wouldn't be so bad, Congress is bad at making small evidence based changes on a reasonable timeline so instead they setup the rules for making the rules and the goals and instantiate or grant that authority to a division of the executive. Unfortunately it seems the courts have become very enthralled to varying degrees to the unitary executive theory which makes corralling that power more difficult.

> If congress doesn't change something, then that means they have determined no change is necessary.

This not accurate. Congress failing to act due to deadlock does not indicate that either party agrees that no change ought to be made, only that congress couldn’t come to an agreement about how it should be made.

To say otherwise is akin to saying that, because you and your husband can’t agree on where to eat for dinner, you must not be hungry.

Both parties might believe that a law needs to be changed, but changed in opposite directions: one might want it repealed, the other strengthened.

I understand your point, but I fear you may misunderstand, because I believe the Decision is in line with your views.

The justices' point is that congress, in its inaction, has not enabled the reduction in Creek reservations that has been perpetrated through large-scale disenfranchisement all all levels of governance, actions which are in direct conflict with the reservation treaty signed in perpetuity.

For these actions to be legal, Congress must have authorized them. This has not happened and therefore, as the justices rule, these actions are unconstitutional.

The judicial branch can decide that a law is not constitutional. It's then Congress' job to find the political will to make the law constitutional. Either by altering it, or amending the constitution. It's a governor on the system. Only the important stuff is supposed to make it past all three branches unscathed.

It either has to be something populist - everyone wants it so I won't get voted out of office - or it needs to be worth spending a ton of political power. When Congress is overwhelmingly in favor of a law, they can prevent a presidential veto. But that degree of unanimity is rarely free. It cost people something else, so it better be worth the opportunity cost.

And this is exactly what the court ruled - if Congress intended to withdraw from or change the agreement they’re well aware of how to make that happen. And they didn’t make it happen so they must not have intended to change anything.

I would assume (haven’t read the whole opinion yet) that nothing about this ruling now prohibits Congress from exercising their authority to take any further action.

> no change is necessary.

This could mean a lot of things. Do you mean no change to the law is necessary? SCOTUS is upholding that principle. It is saying that the law as written stands.

The Judiciary is not overreaching here. They are doing exactly what their job says - they're interpreting existing laws, not writing new laws.

"As with so many controversial court rulings like the ACA mandate case, our courts keep getting put into the decision because of the massive failure that congress is. Congress should either fulfill the promise or not, or whatever. instead the judicial bodies end up making legal judgements with big ramifcations that largely should be left to the legislative body. "

Agreed. Congress is way too addicted to political grandstanding and partial fighting instead of making laws to clarify the situation. It seems pretty clear that with all the 5-4 divisions the Constitution is not precise enough to decide these things unambiguously.

There are countless situations in which Congress tries to punt its responsibility to the other branches. If they want to be a responsibility-free elected TV pundit class that lives high on the taxpayer hog, then let's amend the constitution accordingly. Congress just tries to delegate responsibility to the other two branches so it can get back to fundraising, "investigating," and grandstanding.
I've recently adopted both Francis Fukuyama's vetocracy thesis as well as Ezra Klein's prescription for majoritarian rule.

Yes, both are major oversimplifications to a complicated situation, with path dependencies and subtle counterintuitive cofactors. But it's good battle cry.

We need more accountability, more transparency, more democracy.

A systems engineer strives to create functional feedback loops. Today, that means closing the gaps in our broken feedback loops. Consent of the governed, and so forth.

But isn't this literally Justice throwing the ball back to Legislature? "We understand why you may want this to be true, but if that's the case, you need to do it specifically"
> our courts keep getting put into the decision because of the massive failure that congress is

We need more Civics classes for students.

Branches of the Federal Government being put into the decision because of a massive failure of another is exactly why we have 3 branches. It's rock-paper-scissors. Checks and balances. Which is why, for instance, people squawk so much when the executive branch imagines itself new powers it was not granted.

I disagree with your assertion that this "is exactly why we have 3 branches".

The normal idea behind "checks-and-balances" is that if one branch exceeds their authority, the other two branches can serve as a check on abuse of that authority. The argument being made by GP, though, is pretty much the opposite: Congress isn't overstepping their authority, they're abdicating it. It's basically like they want to be 'checked' by the Supreme Court, because they don't want to have to take a clear stand in the first place.

I don’t have kids so I have no idea what is thought/taught anymore, but this is the sort of thing I was exposed to repeatedly starting in late grade school through early high school. I found government boring back then so I didn’t elect to take classes beyond the basic curriculum in that area.
Each branch needs to be moving for this to work - even the gutters on a bowling lane require someone to start the ball rolling.
Do undue the decades assault on the very idea that government can be good or efficient.