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I am glad that they passed this law in France. People from the cities are coming to the countryside, thinking they own it and they can remove any nuisance which does not fit they idealized view of the countryside. They are dead wrong, life in rural area is all about having good relationship with your neighbors because people help each other there. I remember when a storm hit the region, everyone got out, cleared the trees on the road and repaired each other houses.

I grew up in a village in France: the neighbor has a rooster and the house is next to a church. When I took my wife, a city dweller, to the village, she told me she couldn't sleep past 6am due to the noises from the church (bells ring at 6, then every hour) and the rooster. I am so used to it that my brain filters any rooster or church bells sound.

They are dead wrong, life in rural area is all about having good relationship with your neighbors because people help each other there.

Maybe that's the case where you live. I've seen other places where everybody was at war with everybody else. Did you just say "idealized view of the countryside"?

Not so extreme, but I grew up bordering the country and it was very annoying sometimes. Dogs barking all night long, very difficult to filter that. Lots of flies, wasps and other bugs. And then little village big hell. Give me big city any time.

There is always some issues among people and some nasty stuff can happen, but overall there is more mutual help than in the city. What I miss in the city is this kind of help easy to get by in a village, for example I cannot ask a farmer to remove a tree sump, I have to pay a professional to do it.
I am curious about the phrase ‘little village, big hell.’ What does it mean, exactly?
>People from the cities are coming to the countryside, thinking they own it and they can remove any nuisance which does not fit they idealized view of the countryside.

Back when I was living in the South, I remember meeting a few people irritated by the cicadas who were allegedly « too loud ». Imagine that.

>I remember when a storm hit the region, everyone got out, cleared the trees on the road and repaired each other houses.

Was that the 99 storm ? Back then I was in the North-East, where it was the strongest. I saw an old guy walking his dog outside and almost getting beheaded by a rogue steel sheet. I also vividly remember people daisy-chaining 100m extension chords across the village to bring electricity to the side that lost it. A lot of people were panicking because they had four freezers full of meat hidden in the basement, and a lot of them were quite poor and couldn't afford to lose those.

Yes it was the 99 storm. Our village Lost electricity,tree fell on the only road to the village,and several houses including ours lost tiles. Everyone got busy to repair everything and cleared the road.
Many a small airport in the U.S. has met its fate by the complaints of newcomers.
I moved next to an airport. Every morning at 6AM I'd get woken up by jet engines at full power taking off.

One day I realized that I was no longer waking up at 6AM. Either none of the 6AM flights were running anymore or I just no longer heard the noise.

And of course, the flights were still running.

> I grew up in a village in France: the neighbor has a rooster and the house is next to a church.

To be fair, I grew up into one of the most rural part of France as did my parents and my grand parents before them and I have a vivid memory of my father killing the neighbor rooster while he was crowning at three in the morning. Roosters are dumb animals. Keeping them in settled area is asking for troubles.

Do you think this law will succeed in making people who are moving to the countryside from the cities to befriend their neighbors?
Moving to the countryside and starting a legal action on a local is not the best way to make new friends..

I hope that this law will refrain people from going to court, which is a new habit in France.

That's all fine and I agree with your comment, but in the legal case that's the subject of the article, the rooster owners were the new neighbors, and the area looks fairly urban.
not at all, the rooster's owner, Corinne Fesseau, lives there since 35 years. The plaintiffs bought the house in 2003, and come there only during summer.

source: https://www.ladepeche.fr/2019/05/13/ile-doleron-parce-quil-g...

I live in rural Switzerland, and I can tell you the sensory heritage is a real thing. I came for it. I love the sound and smells of having cows on the other side of my back fence. I would be very sad if a city dweller arrived and disrupted my quality of life by interfering with my neighbor's farm.
Thing is there are assholes on both sides. And both sides may use laws to their convenience to keep being assholes.

I have a neighbour in my village (and I mean, really 'in') who has several cocks, and he also has peacocks! The first ones start around 2 AM, the other ones basically never stop. I leave 300 yards away and I hear everything through the double window, every night. Oh, as I said peacocks, you probably thought "that neighbour must have a large property, a real park". Yeah, no, he has a standard detached house with its small piece of land, and the hens, the cocks, the peacocks spend their time on neighbours properties: a few remaining meadows (nobody really minds) and, what is more trouble, the gardens (they ate all my cabbages one year in a garden I have even farther from their place).

Also, sometimes people complain against traditional things, but they often complain about 'industrial' size farms. Farming has changed a lot in France in 30 years (even though it still operates at much smaller scale than in countries like the USA, the sizes and modes of exploitation have dramatically changed). So people often complain about a massive pig farm, a massive poultry farm with several thousands chickens, and so on.

In my village (coming back a bit earlier in time), people used to have 1 to 4 cows in a tiny stable, and would take them to the meadows. Now the few remaining so-called agricultors have a hundred cows in a hangar (often all year long). Actually they don't have a hundred cows: they have 99 cows, because starting with the 100th, the extra cows are no more subsidised...

I add another examples about changes.

I grew up in the early 80s in a very small village, in a very rural area: the parents of all pupils were farmers, except mine. Cereals production was dominant, with a part of cattle and poultry.

Nowadays there are problems between farmers and non-farmers. Non-farmers will complain about farmers. Farmers will complain about the complaints from non-farmers. Which is right?

Farmers will tell that those assholes from the cities do not understand their work, that they must adapt to traditions if they come settle there, and so on. For examples, that harvesting at 2 AM is normal because it is cooler. I am sorry but this is somewhat bullshit. Or complete bullshit. When I was a kid, they would never work at night, except for a real emergency (and they didn't have air-conditioning). The truth is, that those farmers have bought a lot more land, that the surface of each farm has tripled or quadrupled, and therefore they have to harvest 3 or 4 times more in the same time period or even in less time because they have specialised in a single activity (giving up on cattle for example) and must do all their surface at the same moment instead of just a part. There is no tradition in that, it is brand new.

Also, nobody had breathing troubles because of harvesting when I was a kid. But now the harvesters are larger, faster, and they make clouds of fine dust which spread far. I am not normally asthmatic, but last times I visited there at harvest period, I had breathing problem because of that dust. Again, zero tradition there. Even with mechanised agriculture of WW2- 1980s, it was not a thing.

So the recent changes are creating true problems, and complaining about does not always mean being an intolerant entitled asshole. Those problems cannot be swept away in the name of tradition. If farmer had remained traditional in their techniques, there wouldn't be such problems and people wouldn't complain about them.

Attend UC Davis, and you too can smell cow and hog dung whenever the winds shift just right. ;-)
Growing up in a rural area, I have mostly good memories of roosters crowing across the road. I have no idea where the trope of crowing at sunrise came from, as they seemed to do it 24/7.

Also, "smells of the countryside" gave me a good chuckle.

I moved from a city to the countryside a couple years ago, and I think what startled me is how loud it is. I confess I'd expected quiet but farm equipment, tractors, etc. make quite a lot of noise.

Fortunately, the dawn chorus is nearly deafening and brings me joy every morning.

It's been great, but now I realize that a few acres an hour from the city isn't quite enough for solitude, you're mostly in a working food factory (fair enough I suppose); if you want real quiet it seems you might need 50-100+ acres many hours away.

>what startled me is how loud it is

Went on holiday to rustic Italy. Woke up by the freaking birds before 6, so, so loud! Louder than I've ever heard birds before, thousands of insolent cheep chirp squawk. It was amazing! I was/am a city dweller and was expecting Boccherini.

> I confess I'd expected quiet but farm equipment, tractors, etc. make quite a lot of noise.

Well, they are less noisy than they used to be (think of the change of noise emissions for cars, though added dampening body), but the usage is now constant.

> I realize that a few acres an hour from the city isn't quite enough for solitude, you're mostly in a working food factory (fair enough I suppose); if you want real quiet it seems you might need 50-100+ acres many hours away.

If you have meadows around, that's easier: the tractors only pays quick visits in the course of 3 days, once or twice a year, to cut/ted/make bunches of hay. Cutting grass is faster than ploughing a field, it requires less power, and less operations are needed along the year. And it smells good :) Then you have the cattle, but cattle in a meadow is not a nuisance generally.

> if you want real quiet it seems you might need 50-100+ acres many hours away.

But then you are the one who must maintain all those acres :-)

Common in farming areas near cities in USA.

People move to be close to nature but the farmers are out spreading manure at 5:30 AM and trucks are going up and down the "quiet country lane" all day.

I don't mind manure, but pesticides and other chemicals could be nasty. Also farmland is monocrop desert in USA
Those types of law hurt my feelings. I have studied and I'm working so hard every day, all of this to make sure the countryside is stuck in the past?

It makes me want to leave France.

Well leave then. I don't know who you think you are, but the fate of the nation isn't resting on your shoulders, and living in the countryside doesn't makes us lesser beings for it.
It sounds more like a law saying "if you want to live in the past by having roosters, you're allowed to"
I wouldn't call that "stuck in the past".

I think it is a very beautiful lifestyle, to be able to live away from the industrialization and closer to the nature.

At least where I live in the US, this isn't an issue. In fact I wouldn't mind seeing some constraints added where I am. A neighbor on a 1/3 acre plot with a rooster is no big deal. That same neighbor with 8 roosters crowing more or less all day long is a major headache.

Not something I'm taking anyone to court over.

It won't go down like that, unfortunately; it'll be a blanket set of restrictions that are selectively enforced, mostly to harass the Hispanic families who have moved into the neighborhood
People have odd expectations that their new neighborhoods should fit them and not the other way around. I’m reminded of a situation in New York City where a couple moved into a fancy new apartment building next to an active train yard and then proceeded to sue for noise because the train yard was 24/7.

Do due diligence before picking a place to live, folks.

There's another aide of this coin which is also important. There's that whole urbanism movement which is all about making our town and cities more suited to humans. Making the streets more walkable, reducing traffic, increasing bike infrastructure, increasing green spaces. These are all things that people have the right to request in a big city because it makes living there better for everyone.
> Do due diligence before picking a place to live, folks.

Honestly, aside from a few obvious things, "due diligence" is often pretty much impossible.

If you move into an apartment in the winter, there's zero way of knowing that teens like to blare window-shakingly loud music in the park across the street every other day in the summer.

Or that the seemingly innocuous speed bump in front of your building will cause the 10's of garbage trucks that race by at maximum speed at 2 am each night to rattle and bump with such a force that each one wakes you up.

Or that a month after you move in, you get a new neighbor next door who blares bass-thumping music all day long while you're trying to work.

Or that the building next door starts to undergo gut renovation and welcome to jackhammering all day long.

Except for super-obvious stuff like is this a street with noisy bars/clubs, or yeah an active train yard -- which isn't even "due diligence" it's just keeping your eyes open -- there really isn't much you can do ahead of time. You just have to accept it'll always be a gamble.

It is more so that if a country have maximum sound regulations, then either the law should define exceptions for certain animals, and if it do not, it should be treated the same.

I would assume there are certain maximum sound volume regulations in France as they exist in many places.

“tradition” is all too commonly used as an argument to break the law. I do not believe it should play a factor at all whether something happened in the past, merely whether it violate the law.

If France have nationwide rules about sound levels and the rooster exceeded them, then that is all the diligence a man needs to have done. One may certainly expect that the government upholds the law uniformly throughout one's country.

Tbf, what also sometimes happens is that you move somewhere, discover that a local business is breaking noise pollution regulations, but when you complain you are met with aggression because "it has always been like this, you should have done your research". And maybe that's true, but we have laws about some of this stuff for a reason - if they are being broken then I don't see problem with complaining.
Noise pollution is a real thing.

All of our industrial equipment should be designed with this in mind.

Back up beepers are considerably louder than they need to be.

Weirdly, the police sirens in Germany towns like Frankfurt are incessant - it's a very piercing sound, they use them often, all day long, and the sound bounces through the walls of the town which is 5 stories everywhere and narrow streets. In a North American city you rarely actually hear sirens - maybe for firetrucks.

The low hum of gasonline engines really adds up, the electrics are so much nicer that way but I fear accidents.

> Do due diligence before picking a place to live, folks.

Frankly houses for sale & rent should come with a sound recording of the last two weeks of use

Dilligence is hard as heck; who knows if there's som neighbor that habitually does carpentry at 2AM or whose dog goes apeshit a couple times a week or a delivery service va blasting it's noisemaker at 5AM.

I agree about doing due diligence but a lot is hard to account for. We are so much at the mercy of the outside world. Maybe the neighbors AC sucks & reverbs something wicked. How would a winter home buyer find that out? Or maybe it's the heater that's a problem.

And it just doesn't feel like we're in a world where people tend to be open to working together to improve things.

Reminds me of the slow downfall of the Laguna Seca race track.

https://jalopnik.com/the-absurd-community-fight-that-could-c...

Short version: People move in next to an established race track and learn they don't like the sound of race tracks. You'll be shocked at what happens next!

> then proceeded to sue for noise

Oh that’s going to go over well. Some people in my neighborhood tried suing and now we have every train blowing their horns through this entire section of the city. A dozen times a day and many of those at night.

It’s hard for me to not laugh at my neighbors every time it happens.

The law of nuisance isn't about 'people fitting each other'. It's about securing the rights of property holders. If someone is running a train yard and hasn't obtained encumbrances on surrounding properties to allow for permitted noise, that's on them.

Do your due diligence when developing industrial properties, folks.

Hudson Yards?

Because I was always wondering how that would go

I remember reading a Cato institute article about France in the 90's that went in a fairly deep analysis to conclude that France had basically chosen to become a country-sized theme park.

In that context, such a law makes complete sense, I guess.

Well tourism is a pretty important revenue source for France and many other European countries, that's not particularly surprising.

If you want to see the non-theme park France feel free to ask, I can give you the address of my favourite kebab in a 70's style banlieue dortoir, you'll love it.

I'd take anything from the Cato institute with a boulder of halite, seeing as it's an anti-regulation propaganda outfit funded by billionaires who consider any constraint on their ability to convert natural resources into personal wealth as a grave moral outrage.
Do you smell that? Do you smell that son?

What?

Pig manure.

There is no smell like that.

I love the smell of pig manure in the morning.

...

It smells like bacon.

I'd laugh if it was an astroturf campaign sponsored by Monsanto, roundup smell is now enshrined in EU law!
I haven't read the text of the law, and with only a couple years of disused collegiate French language classes and no French legal training whatsoever under my belt, I don't think I could understand it if I tried. So, I might be wrong, or well off the mark here, but...

[The disclaimer is longer than comment, but here goes nothing]

... This sounds like it might result in unexpected and undesirable outcomes. Are rural French communities really so invariant over time and space that you can set their community standards in stone?

To answer your question: no