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I find the anecdote(?) of how the first Parsi refugees convinced the ruler of the port city of Surat to let them immigrate wholesome.
The ruler summoned the Parsi representatives to his court. When asked how would they assimilate in the local society, the Parsis asked for some sugar and milk. They mixed it in front of the ruler and said that this is how they will assimilate, not changing the society but making it sweeter.
Even today the Parsi dialect of the Gujarati language is polite and sweet.
There's an additional detail in the apocryphal story. The king and the Parsis didn't have a language in common. The king was reluctant to allow them to settle. To communicate this, he dops a few pebbles into a container full of milk which promptly overflows. The implication being that the kingdom was full. The Parsis then mix sugar into the milk implying they would assimilate.
Sanjan, not Surat. This story is unsubstantiated nonsense, and there is little to no evidence that the Parsis were originally refugees. Archaeological expeditions were already done in Sanjan, you can look up the results.
> That the Zoroastrian migrants to Sanjan were basically a mercantile group is borne out by records as well as by excavated material. Andre Wink goes further and adds that the migration was not so much due to religious persecution as much as ‘a readjustment of commercial patterns which had arisen long before Islam, and, to an extent at least, a response to new opportunities in the transit trade between the Islamic world and al-Hind’
THE LANDING OF THE ZOROASTRIANS AT SANJAN The archaeological evidence - Rukshana Nanji and Homi Dhalla
The Pahlavi kings were Shi'ite Muslims. This article is spinning a revisionist narrative that has a mild whiff of using religion to divide a people. I lived in the Pahlavi Iran, which is certainly missed, but the notion that there was "neo-Zoroastrianism" in the air is news to me. Zoroaster was very simply framed as one of the prophets that the Muslim scripture asserts has been sent to "every nation" by God. Iranians were rather fed (and many actually believe this!) an interesting fable about how Shia Islam is the Iranian version of Islam.
And from the 3 major classical Iranian empires and eras, it was not the very assertively Zoroastrian Sassanid empire that was memorialized and used as a vehicle to promote nationalism by Pahlavi Shahs, but rather the Hakhamaneshian (Achaemenid) dynasty. When the late Shah of Iran held his memorial to 2500 years of Iranian kings, he saluted Cyrus the Great, not some zealously Zoroastrian Sassanid Shah.
http://irancollection.alborzi.com/2500/index.htm
Note the missing "flame". Note, instead, the Cylinder of Ku-Rosh (Cyrus the Great). And Cyrus, unlike his equally great successor Dariush, was rather cagey about his actual religious beliefs.
Even in what passes for native "neo-classical" architecture, it was again the Achaemenid era that was front and center.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Iranian_Foreign_Affaire_M...
> This article is spinning a revisionist narrative that has a mild whiff of using religion to divide a people.
I think the article fairly represents that it was a complicated situation - with the Pahlavis using Zoroastrianism sourced from India as a tool to fuel Iranian nationalism, i.e.:
"At the core of this tension lay the “implicit contradictions between the liberal goals of the Parsis and the more nationalist goals of many Iranians” during the interwar decades of the 1920s and 1930s."
Perhaps as a result of the sponsorship of the Pahlavis, nearly every Iranian I've met outside Iran (including many who lived there before 1979) have good understanding of Zoroastrianism's role in Iran's history and culture - and a reason why many people in post-Islamic Iran have liberal values despite living under a theocracy.
> Iranians were rather fed (and many actually believe this!) an interesting fable about how Shia Islam is the Iranian version of Islam.
Persia had a significant influence on Islam even before the Arab conquest of Persia, evidenced by the Persian loanwords in Arabic [1]. It's hard to imagine how Persian culture wouldn't have had a huge influence on Islam inside Persia itself.
1. https://burjbaabil.com/2014/05/31/persian-loanwords-in-arabi...
This reminds me of an essay I was just reading, "Zoroastrian Survivals in Iranian Folklore"[1], by the eminent religious scholar R. A. Zaehner (who I knew better for his famous debates in the 1960's and 1970's arguing that mystical experiences occasioned by psychedelics weren't true mystical experiences).
From the introduction to the paper:
"Visitors to the Vatican Museum in Rome will remember that the very first monuments, flanking the entrance to the first room in the vast gallery that leads ultimately to the Sistine Chapel, are neither saints not angels but what appear to be devils: for at each side of the entrance door, guarding it with their baleful presence, stand two most un-Christian deities with the head of a lion and gaping jaws. In both hands they bear keys, a snake encircles their bodies, and the Signs of the Zodiac are impressed on their limbs.[2] Coming face to face with these awesome figures Christians may well recall the words of St. Peter: "Be sober and watch; because your adversary, the devil, as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour" (i Pet. 5 . 8 ). The serpent too which envelops the body of the lion-headed deity is all too familiar, and one is tempted to identify it with that selfsame serpent which tempted our first mother, Eve, to eat of the forbidden fruit.
Yet, interesting though the Christian parallels may be, we have long known that this rather repulsive deity has nothing to do with the Christian devil, for he figured in a cult that was for long Christianity's most potent rival in the early Roman Empire. This rival religion which has left monuments throughout the length and breadth of the Roman Empire is known as Mithraism, and its roots were originally in Iran; for the god Mithra, from whom the New Persian word mehr, meaning both the "sun" and "affection" derives, was, in the Zoroastrianism of the later Achaemenian Empire, second only to the supreme Deity, Ahura Mazdah himself."
The paper concerns a discovery in the 1960's of an incomplete 600,000 word story written during WW2 by a mysterious Iranian by the name of Ali Mirdrekvandi[3], which Zaehner deduced must have been a retelling of ancient Zoroastrian myth and which, Zaehner argued, confirmed his identification of the lion-headed figure (the "Lionish god" in the story) as Ahriman, the false deity and enemy of their true god, Ahura Mazdah (Ohrmazd).
[1] - https://archive.org/details/ZaehnerZorSurvivalsFolklore
[2] - http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/images/cimrm545.gi...
You can visit a Mithraeum at Sutri (VT), ~50 Km north of Rome: (in Italian)
https://www.tripadvisor.it/Attraction_Review-g1064663-d10823...
> Christianity's most potent rival in the early Roman Empire
Christianity’s rivals in the early Roman Empire were basically every other faith, because, unlike most Roman religions they were monotheistic. Arguably their most potent political rival was the imperial cult.
The Persians, who were mostly Zoroastrian, were a major rival, but mostly for more mundane reasons.
Freddie Mercury was also of Parsi origin[0], with both of his parents practicing Zoroastrianism.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury#Early_life
By the by, I hadn't heard of Zoroastrianism until I read Peck's A Short Stay In Hell, where the main character finds out (at the beginning) that Zoroastrianism was the one true and correct religion. It's a quick read, I'd recommend it.
[0] https://bookshop.org/books/a-short-stay-in-hell/978098374842...
What is interesting is Asuras and Devas in Persian and Indian religions.
In India the Devas are gods and the Asuras are demons.
In Persia, Asuras (called Ahuras) eventually came to become singular Ahura and identified with the supreme God and the Devas became demons.
Thus the gods and demons are reversed between India and Persia.
Both the cognates Asura/Ahura and Deva/Daeva come from proto Indo European roots describing supernatural or divine beings ("divine" itself is derived from the same root as Deva/Daeva) .
The polarization of the two into inimical identities is thought to have happened at some point in antiquity, but it cemented after the Indian Vedic period. During the Vedic period the Asuras weren't all bad - indeed many import demigods of the pantheon are Asuras. They are quite analogous in this way to the Norse Æsir and Vanir, who are not strictly good and evil, and like them often had their conflicts play out on Earth.
While some scholars have suggested that the Asura/Deva split must represent an actual schism that took place between the Zoroastrians and the Vedic peoples, it could just as well be the result of cultural drift or the influence of other adjacent cultures.
as the other comment says, asura/deva were not allways hero/villain split.
King Bali is the perfect example. Bali was called an asura, but he never did anything wrong. He waged wars with devas, and even when devas pleaded vishnu for defeating him, Vishnu recognized his virtues and agreed to push him to paatala (below earth) using trick instead of killing him.
King Prahlad is also another example, he is born to an asura father, but is worshipped as deva. His cousins/sons were again be treated as asuras.
Deva/Asura is calibrated to the speaker. as BBC once said, one man's hero is other man's villain.
Zoroastrianism is one of the world's oldest continuously practiced religions, based on the teachings of the Iranian-speaking prophet Zoroaster.
In Zoroastrianism, the purpose in life is to become an ashavan (a master of Asha, the life force) and to bring happiness into the world, which contributes to the cosmic battle against evil. Zoroastrianism's core teachings include:
Follow the Threefold Path of Asha: Humata, Huxta, Huvarshta (Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds).
Charity is a way of maintaining one's soul aligned to Asha and to spread happiness.
The spiritual equality and duty of men and women alike.
Being good for the sake of goodness and without the hope of reward.
There is also a link between Zoroastrianism and the ancient Vedic religion. They probably were the same before a schism led by Zoroaster.
Is there a popular religion that is not completely centered around humans? I find these whole "happiness" and "charity" concepts fake and disturbing.
As in good deeds = making other humans happy or whatever.
Yah, I am not big on religion.
I've been to the fire temple in Yazd and there was an inscription on the wall. I don't remember the details but the main gist of it was about remaining open minded and welcoming new ideas. I'm not sure if this is a core tenet of Zoroastrianism or if it was a local thing but I don't know of another ancient religion with that emphasis.
AFAIK a lot of Armenian church vocabulary is actually Parthian-origin (pre-300s AD) Zoroastrian terms repurposed.
While growing up in India I knew some Parsi families - they are good at business, ethical and charitable. The Tata Group in India founded by Parsis , a 150 year old business conglomerate- is well respected and known for their philanthropy.
There is a good episode of the BBC podcast "In Our Time" on the history and philosophy of Zoroastrianism:
"How was the religion established in Ancient Persia, what is its body of beliefs and how have they been developed and disseminated? With Vesta Sarkhosh Curtis, Curator of Ancient Iranian Coins in the Department of Coins and Medals at the British Museum; Farrokh Vajifdar, Fellow of the Royal Asiatic Society; Alan Williams, Senior Lecturer in Comparative Religion at the University of Manchester."
Rohinton Mistry's Swimming Lessons and Other Stories from Firozsha Baag is set in a Parsi community within Mumbai. Fascinating stories that throw a spotlight on their integration, beliefs and everyday lives.
Goes without saying, Mistry's A Fine Balance is probably the best book I've ever read. The story still stays with me years later and I look forward to re-reading it at some point.
A Fine Balance is an excellent book. I second the recommendation. It too features Parsis of Mumbai and the disconnect between them and the poorer laborer class, especially during the Emergency.
I am both Zoroastrian and Parsi, and while I adore seeing these articles on the top of HN (i.e. on a global stage), I am extremely curious:
Who is upvoting these articles about my mostly forgotten culture and why?
I’ve found that many of us who try to stay on the “cutting edge” of new wrt our professions and hobbies also have an interest in history of people and religions and a general interest with things that go back far into history. It’s not a complete overlap by any means, but it isn’t an uncommon pairing to find in people.
Interesting archeological news, and things about less well know cultures are often shared and upvoted here as well.
I think most Indians, at least Hindus, have a favorable opinion of Indian parsis and like seeing articles about them. At least I’m one of them.
> Who is upvoting these articles about my mostly forgotten culture and why?
I've read some into Zoroastrianism and find it super interesting, that's why I upvoted it.
I think those interested in history and skeptics find it interesting to learn about how early Abrahamic religions were potentially influenced by Zoroastrianism
Tbh, I've just been down a few wikipedia rabbit holes in my time and came across it reading up on religions. If I was actually at all religious, I'd like to have been Zoroastrian. It at least would be closest to making the most sense to me compared to a lot of others. If more people were aware of it, I see it as a good thing.
At this stage of my life I accept for a certain group of the population, they need religion to fill a gap in some people's need to feel like they belong. If that gap is filled with something that has less ties to imperialism and is a general ethos of "Be excellent to each other" I'm totally fine with an upvote now and then.
Me. Probably the other Parsi Zoroastrian here :-)
I am, because Also sprach Zarathustra.
I find Iranian/Persian history fascinating. I want to visit sometime. I had to put it off when I was studying in the US, … for obvious reasons.
The following might be an unpopular notion here on HN, but do not entirely understand why the US has a chip on their shoulder about Iran. Seems US is the aggressor in that conflict.
I am interested because I really like fire and how it is an integral part of Zoroastrianism.
Indian people probably
I learned of Zoroastrianism from EU4 (the video game) and did some Wikipedia deep dives. I always enjoy learning about minority religions.
When I was in college I met a few Zoroastrians who I quite got along with. They explained to me their religion and background and I've found it quite fascinating and interesting ever since -- most particularly the deep connections between it and the Judeo-Christian religious environment I grew up in.
> Who is upvoting these articles about my mostly forgotten culture and why?
I feel like Zoroastrianism is pretty mainstream, at least in the U.S. Even Obama celebrated Nowruz.
Me because of my friend who is like you.
Everybody who loves Bohemian Rhapsody!
I recently stumbled on another ancient Iranian religion, that of the prophet Mani[1] and had a strong Baader-Meinhoff phenomenon thing where in the next couple of days I read the word “Manichean” used colloquially twice. I guess l it is used to describe a kind of over simplistic good vs. evil dualism.
Its a weird article. It casts the Indian Parsis as some kind of weird little minority with little power.
it couldnt be farther from the truth. The Indian Parsi have had an outsized impact across the world.
The Tata Sons Group - one of the world's largest business empires (which incidentally owns Jaguar Land Rover) was created by the Tata Parsi family. Ratan Tata is basically Dale Carnegie and Rockefeller rolled into one.
The second largest Godrej group in India is Parsi.
Home Bhabha is the father of India's nuclear program. Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw was India's only Field Marshal and probably the most legendary military warrior ever.
The controversial political family of India - the Gandhis are a half Parsi family.
The world's largest COVID vaccine manufacturer and the backbone of India's COVID effort (as well as the global COVAX program) is the Poonawaala family which runs Serum Institute of India.
Zubin Mehta - the world's most famous orchestra conductor is an Indian Parsi.
Oh and I nearly forgot.... Freddie Mercury ...yes that Freddie Mercury is a Parsi. His real name is Farrokh Bulsara.
This is really amazing when you consider that there are barely a few hundred thousand of them in a country of 1.3 billion people.
Indian religions are interesting topic. It is birthplace of major religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.
Hinduism the most popular religion is unlike any other. Over time it is constantly modified and evolved. While Christianity and islam grew by replacing previous practices, Hinduism stitched all into one. So it has trees, fire, wind deity as well as abstract gods. Popular schools with different thoughts evolved and merged into a unified stream.
Sadly recent radicalisation have dented its malleability.
> While Christianity and islam grew by replacing previous practices, Hinduism stitched all into one.
I think to a good extent you can say Catholicism grew by absorbing other religions. It started with Judaism, but then continued to subsume other pagan religions. Christmas itself has pagan roots.
Zoroastrianism is the reason Mazda is spelled the way it is instead of Matsuda
I am 25% Parsi but didn’t know much of the history. Really interesting.
Indian Parsis are the "model minority" of India.
They are rich, educated, charitable, and polite. Extremely low to non-existent crime rates.
They serve in the armed forces, active in academia and commerce. They are also quite highly involved in Bollywood.