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by cainxinth·5y ago·view on hn ↗
Not to downplay their success too much, but doing those things in the 2020s, while still expensive and difficult, is not nearly as expensive and difficult as doing them in the 1990s.

And given their propensity for stealing Western IP, would anyone be surprised to learn some of China’s progress is thanks to groundwork laid by Western space companies and agencies?

5 comments
Probably everyone know “ standing on the shoulders of giants”. Every new discovery is based on knowledge acquired from previous discoveries. What is achieved by USA is also standing on the work of previous great civilizations.

Indeed all the knowledge USA today have, is built on top of knowledge brought in by immigrants from their respective society, culture and place.

China is not the only country trying space missions. European Union, Japan, South Korea and India has also been trying for years. Besides Russia, USA now China is 3rd country to successfully launch a space station and then take crew to it, despite the sanctions and constant blocking of technology transfer (indeed forgetting the basic tenet of standing on the shoulders of giants).

It’s a big achievement for China given they were blocked from ISS and need to re-invent the wheels. Hopefully they will be able to show same innovation and operational capability in space as they have shown in fast speed bullet trains.

Personally I hope that humanity can come together to have more collaborations on space, given it will be the only hope if something happens to Earth.

Docking of spacecraft with crew is a win for science and another feather in understanding space. Congratulations to all the scientists and people involved in this project, they deserve an applause for the this feat.

Please don't abuse the phrase "standing on the shoulders of giants." It's the difference between riffing off a work of art to produce something novel versus plagiarism. What China does is the latter, not the former. It's not "standing on the shoulders of giants."

And in this case it's worse: China's government is engaged in a genocide and empire building at least as bad as any colonial power in the West, and likely worse due to its extremely oppressive, authoritarian nature. Their achievements are not only built on theft of others' hard work, but on the backs of the oppressed people that have guns pointed at their heads.

> Personally I hope that humanity can come together to have more collaborations on space, given it will be the only hope if something happens to Earth.

I do, too. But China isn't going to contribute to that: they'd rather let others do the hard work and then steal it. It's not a bad strategy in some respects. But it's not respectable or good in any meaningful sense as it applies to a shared endeavor such as you describe.

> I do, too.

Sorry based on your comment, it seems not.

There is a clear strong negative bias towards China in your comment and lack of understanding with “standing on the shoulders of giants”.

You can read all about rockets, still it will be hard to build one. Very few companies and countries are able to do space missions, even with the availability of all the know how. India took two decades to build cryogenic engines based on the Russian design and specifications, called CE-7.5 (and variants with minor changes). It helped them build CE-20 later and it’s still hard and they are working on it.

So may be for once just keep your bias on side and be able to acknowledge the achievements based on science.

> Their achievements are not only built on theft of others' hard work, but on the backs of the oppressed people that have guns pointed at their heads.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

Tu quoque arguments are rather poor, really.
Not really, they signed a bunch of deals with Russia to legally import their IP wholesale. For example, the Shenzhou spaceship flown today is a direct descendant of the venerable Soviet Soyuz. (Which is still being flown to the ISS as well.)

I know it's easy to think "cheap Chinese copy fnarr fnarr", but so far they have a perfect track record for human spaceflight (and no, even the CCP couldn't cover up a space accident).

And the Saturn V rocket was designed by an upstanding american citizen totally from scratch :p
Operation Titan Rain also comes to mind. It was so long ago that hardly anyone knows or talks about the massive IP theft happening late 90s and early 2000s.
Yeah, but I’m pretty sure they don’t publicize the use of tech that they pilfered.
Probably everyone know “ standing on the shoulders of giants”. Every new discovery is based on knowledge acquired from previous discoveries. What is achieved by USA is also standing on the work of previous great civilizations. Indeed all the knowledge USA today have is built on top of knowledge brought in by those immigrants from their respective society, culture and place.

China is not the only country trying space missions. European Union, Japan, South Korea and India has also been trying for years. Besides Russia, USA now China is 3rd country to successfully launch a space station and then take crew to it, despite the sanctions and constant blocking of technology transfer (indeed forgetting the basic tenet of standing on the shoulders of giants).

It’s a big achievement for China given they were blocked from ISS and need to re-invent the wheels. Hopefully they will be able to show same innovation and operational capability in space as they have shown in fast speed bullet trains.

Personally I hope that humanity can come together to have more collaborations on space, given it will be the only hope if something happens to Earth.

Docking of spacecraft with crew is a win for science and another feather in understanding space. Congratulations to all the scientists and people involved in this project, they deserve an applause for the this feat.

Well, the world is out of nazi scientists to steal knowledge from...
>stealing western IP

The term youre looking for is copying without authorization, to steal IP requires that the original intellectual good be removed from its proprietor, which, short of a "Men In Black" style brainalyzer, is simply not possible

I trust that in order to preserve and strengthen the incentive structure around the creation of novel intellectual goods, such a device should be technologically within reach within the next 20 years, and hopefully the world's IP lobbies will be granted special powers to compel the use of such devices in cases where individuals find themselves coming into possession of protected intellectual goods without authorization

In answer to your question though, no, I do not think anyone would be surprised if some of China's progress is thanks to the groundwork laid by Western space companies and agencies.

Is anyone surprised with regard to the U.S. progress in rocketry thanks to the groundwork laid by the Nazi military?

I agree with your first comment but just found your second one a little strange.