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by dcminter·18y ago·view on hn ↗
Part of the problem for me, however, is that I can't assume that designers know CSS, and I can't assume that the designers will know how to use their tools to spit out CSS that's compatible with the application that it will be applied to. I have no choice but to tangle with CSS whenever I want things to work correctly - and that's my prerogative as a programmer.

Looking at the CSS3 standard, the designers seem to be making mistakes of the "more of the same" variety. For example they are proposing additions to allow for multi-column content, but nothing I can see there suggests that they will allow for an arbitrary number of columns.

Today's frustration is trying to get a textarea to fill the remainder of the page rather than specifying its size exactly. As far as I can tell that's impossible without using Javascript. Why? There's nothing unusual about my requirement - to me it seems that CSS is simply deficient.

Is there a "workaround" for this?

So, to address your criticism of "shallowness" - yes, that's probably fair; I am an occasional CSS user. But still, that's a legitimate usage pattern. Why don't I feel the same sense of crushing frustration when I work with SQL, HTML, or Javascript? I believe it is because they're better designed.

Now, I may be wrong. CSS may be brilliantly designed. If so, I have to assume that I am therefore using it incorrectly or am missing some fundamental philosophy of design that explains everything. If so, most of my "shallow" criticisms should be easy to counter. Are they?

If you just mean that my article is shallow because it doesn't really impart any new knowledge - then why aren't developers up in arms about the awfulness of CSS?

1 comments
"I can't assume that designers know CSS"

sad but true. I often forget that such a large % of web designer are kinda crap when it comes to the technology that they design for. It's like painting with out brushes. You need to know the medium you work in.

"You need to know the medium you work in."

I'm not sure. Maybe you are right - but for me the problem is that the designers that I can afford who know CSS don't produce such pretty designs as the ones who don't.

Perhaps that's my error, but if CSS were easier for me to work with it wouldn't be such a problem in the first place.

So am I being stupid? Is CSS actually easy/rational and I'm just missing the big picture, or is it really kind of flakey and I'm just going to have to lump it?

I'd prefer the "Dave is ignorant" answer to be correct, to be honest, because it at least I stand a chance of rectifying it.

at the very least this is an old argument. Dvorak said they same thing back in 2006. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,1987181,00.asp

A lot of the stuff you want to do is in the "standard" but you need 3 or 4 browsers to all implement it and do it in the same way before it counts as being truly an option.

You know 3 or 4 doesn't seem that bad. Should be manageable. It's not, that's unfortunate. In lots of cases 3 - 4 players can virtually act as one.

Look at the RIAA. A model of cooperation.