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Many hobbies have a tension between catering to high-effort purists and to more casual people. (And while I think a lot of the Japanophilia in the post is beside the point, Japanese hobby culture does seem to tilt towards pursuing a single hobby to perfection over dabbling in several hobbies). The author mentions polishing an engine past the point that it actually makes a car go faster; I've seen similar things in some cycling cultures where people focus on getting the right bike parts to the point where it overwhelms the original intention of actually going for rides. Or gaming cultures, where serious players want everyone to play optimally so that they can practice their high-level skills, versus casual players who might enjoy it more if they roleplay or goof around a bit.
I think the gaming example is qualitatively different from the cycling example. In cycling, you've lost sight of the goal, which can be best served by cycling. Unless your hobby is actually building bikes, which I'd say is a different but valid hobby.
In gaming, including sports, this tension is common, and it's satisfied by competing at an appropriate level.
See also:
- Fast gaming computers that are only used to run benchmarks.
- Fancy photography gear that is only used to take pictures of resolution test charts and cats.
- Expensive guns that are never taken to the shooting range.
- High-end musical equipment that is only used for "noodling" (goofing off).
Shopping for bike parts is the hobby? is this caused by soulless consumer culture where retailers present themselves through advertisement as the source of dreams? At least here in Japan .. Outdoor is a section in the mall, not a place you go.. and you cant just go climb a mountain in your old clothes, you need all the gear, and the gas stove to make the high altitude coffee at the peak, because someone said that tastes better..
What was the goal in the gaming example?
You could have a goal which is to compete at the highest level that you can and push your abilities to see what you can accomplish, which you might enjoy doing. If you aim for this there's also plenty of scope for losing the deeper goal of just, having fun and enjoying your life.
In this respect I think the gaming and cycling examples can be qualitatively similar.
There's no goal in hobbies. To occupy self with a hobby is to be engaged in something for the sake of it.
The whole gamer subculture is really rude and elitist. I love games and I spend a huge portion of my time on them, both professionally and personally, but I hesitate to call myself a gamer because it has so many strange connotations I do not wish to be associated with.
There are lots of games, and lots of gaming communities - Gamer is a blanket term for all of them. The most obnoxious are often the loudest & most visible. There are also lots of competitive communities with young (tweens, teens, early adulthood) participants which is a good recipe for bad behaviour.
What experience do you have with the subculture i.e. via what portal.
> gamer because it has so many strange connotations
With gamergate, and "gamers are dead" anti-gamer PR from gaming/activist media outlets; members of the gaming culture have been associated a culture war. With so much propaganda on both sides it's hard to determine what is real.
> whole gamer subculture is really rude and elitist
As with many things in life, you've not found the right people. I know some high level players (perhaps a level or two below the best) in a niche but well-known game community. They're very welcoming and are happy to play against me repeatedly despite the fact they all crushed me without a sweat. That said, I do think that the industry wide move towards skill based match making has made games far less endearing than they were in the past. It used to be that people could find the server that was right for them, be it competitive or casual, and do what they wanted. Now most big games don't give you the option to play against people outside of your skill range and you're constantly facing people about as good as you. To me, that's pretty boring long term.
Definitely, I can feel you on this one. There's a lot of negative connotations in regards to being associated as one.
playing video games is a bizarre thing to center your identity around.
“ Bonsai is a serious craft, full of rituals and rules, and largely irrelevant for everyday plant lovers who like small trees and a bit of fun”
This is basically true for every hobby and I always struggle the most to cut through all the unnecessary stuff when embarking on a new journey.
I’m just wonderfully delighted and surprised when I come across a community of experts who “get it” and offer helpful, pragmatic advice.
I think it's often hard to cut through the unnecessary stuff when researching a new hobby because the people talking about it the most are the ones that are deeply invested in it. I long for a collection of "good enough" guides to get started in hobbies.
I thought of bonsai as a fun hobby and chic, slightly exotic decor element. When I went to Japan I was dissappointed that bonsai and ornamental horticulture in general is super serious and regarded as a boring, stuffy hobby by anyone under 60. In retrospect it makes total sense that bonsai is not as special there and the casual import version is actually more fun than the real thing. I think a lot of things are like this cross culturally.
I think it ties in with the "Cool Japan" strategy / perception (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Japan); the Japanese tourism industry and the western Japanese fetishists really want to push and believe in a certain aspect of Japan, involving meticulous craftsmanship, ancient traditions, etc. And I respect that.
But the 'real' Japan is a lot less idyllic; from what I've heard, people are overworked, single, depressed, addicted, etc. But that too is probably lacking in nuance, because it's all second / third hand knowledge.
I would say all the messages about meticulous craftsmanship etc are not wrong and that is the difficulty in some sense. When you encounter a foreign culture in its real full scale version its very from the safe toy imaginary version and not friendly to casual hobbyists.
Last year the author of this article had a problem with an e-scooter bandit stealing his bonsai trees!
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122291004/bonsai-band...
Bonsai annuals are fun, easy, and not much investment to lose of you mess up. By July the garden shops' starter plants are often already started miniaturizing their leaves, you can often pickup a bunch of "damaged" plants for free. Leave them in the nursery pots and keep 'em alive and you can get awesome results.
Peppers, tomatoes, and hemp all work well that way. Tomatoes can make fruits bigger than the plant, if you torture them right.
Cucumbers are lovely as minis but are much harder to keep contained and harder to get to fruit. They grow their fruit too fast and its hard to get enough water into the plant without drowning it.
Tobacco was entertaining to grow in a small pot, i got a 6ft plant that flowered in a 1L pot. it never had great leaves and it scavenged nutrients out of lower leaves to grow higher ones so it was all spindly. Never "miniaturized" the way other plants do. I suspect pumpkins and some other families would behave the same way.
I can appreciate bonsai trees. But I always find that they always put my mind in a similar state to thinking about writing my own novel: something that I want to do when I think about it, but realize that I don't actually want to put in the work for it.
Yes, as the article suggests, a lot of people stay away from bonsai because it smacks of effort, but it can be done simply and easily if you disregard the bonsai love of complexity, age, and perfection
I mean a lot of these people should just start off with some houseplants.
Not really bonsai then, though. Burritos are not egg rolls.
Bonsai inspired teacup trees or something.
Given this is HN I was expecting this to turn into "... and that's why we founded bons.ai, the on-demand bonsai service for the busy person using our unique TaaS technology".
(boringly, bons.ai redirects to some desperately enterprise-looking Microsoft AI thing)
I dunno, I can imagine there would be a market for renting out bonsai trees to either offices (remember offices? Those were the days!) or homes. I mean it'd be a premium service, and you'd have to set up warranties and deposits and the like, but if you can have someone come over once a week or month or however often it needs maintenance (probably less frequently with an automatic watering system), it could be interesting.
Note: This isn't a new concept per se, rental plants are a staple of many offices in the Netherlands. They're usually low maintenance, with someone passing by once a month for watering and other maintenance at the most.
I practice an extremely casual version of the hobby to the point it is not even a hobby.
I did a bonsai course more than 20 years ago. I practiced in the course on my first tree that died weeks later. Then I bought another plant, created the bonsai using what I remembered from the course and I care to it to this day.
It is not a pretty bonsai, most guests don’t even see it as bonsai I think, but it occupies a central place in my living room and I am proud of it.
In a daily basis, I take care of it like any other plant. I trim it like once a year and I wired it only three times in those 20 years. To little dedication to call it a hobby, but it is a part of my life that I care.
This article that talks about the obsession with technique kind of reminds me about when developers talk.
If someone mentions they made a web app, likely I will spend far more time asking them about the programming language, the architecture, the framework, etc than actually about what it does.
Person who sells bonsai trees says bonsai is a fun and easy hobby. And makes a good case. Yes, they made trees in pots sound cool and whimsical. A Don Draper of shrubbery.
"Fun and easy" is almost the exact opposite of my perception of bonsai--when I think of it, I think "I can't even keep mint alive in my backyard. This is a meticulous science and if anyone makes the mistake of letting me touch a bonsai tree, I'm inadvertently going to kill something that's older than my grandparents." The article doesn't quite have me convinced, but it does sound like they're having fun.
> I can't even keep mint alive in my backyard.
I'm jealous- some mint got from my planter into the lawn. The good news it smells nice whenever I mow.
> I can't even keep mint alive in my backyard.
There is something that is killing it in your backyard. Mint should be difficult to get rid of and easy to grow.
There are various plants for bonsai and some of them are super simple. I have had a ficus bonsai for over a year and it has survived all kinds of conditions. Currently it’s sitting on my apartment balcony with no direct sun and strong winds and it seems to be growing strong and healthy. I have done basically nothing but water it. I think I’ll have to re pot it soon but that’s about it.
Another lie by Big Bonsai to scam you out of your hard earned money!
I used to think bonsai was cute but when I learnt it's done by cutting off the young roots of the tree to stunt them and binding the branches with wire, I can't help but feel sad looking at them now.
There's an argument that these trees get better care which I don't doubt but I look at the folded over fins of whales in captivity who are also getting the same "better care" and just wonder if humans should let nature do it's thing without getting in the way.
I totally get anthropomorphizing whales, but doing it with plants seems a bit excessive.
I mean, if from an ethics/empathy standpoint, we can’t even exert our will over PLANTS, we are going to have trouble surviving as a species.
We have to eat. You can argue that it’s better and more efficient to let other animals be, but you can’t really do the same with plants. What’s left then?
You are going to be shocked when you learn what we do to tomatoes. We are oppressing fruits and vegetables so much ...
I think plant are more intelligent than we think.
I think just spending time with a plant might make it more healthy, even doing the bonsai thing which always kinda bothered me too.
Yea--there are no citations. Just a wacky thought I have had for awhile.
Interesting. I have a bonsai Jaboticaba tree. It keeps forming new leaves, so it's still alive. One issue is it gets leaf burn/browning on the outside edges. Soaking with tap water every few days for about a year. No fertilizer added.
My grandmother had cypress and juniper bonsai that were roughly 80 years old.
Im only familiar with houseplants and not trees, but for houseplants the tap water may contain chemicals/metals that brown the edges of leaves.
People say to filter tap water, or supposedly leaving it out overnight works somehow.
Online sources indicate they should probably get daily watering and occasional fertilizer.
wow - that entry could really use an editor!
I kept scrolling and scrolling trying to get past the obnoxious word games to actual content, but it just kept repeating itself over and over.
Alternative: Make nice 3D Models of Bonsai instead
Ironically thats not a bad idea, you can work on it over a long period of time (making small incremental improvements) like a bonsai tree, without the disadvantage of it keeling over if you don't. Of course you lack the physical touch (I assumed you meant digital 3D models, I guess 3D printing multiple iterations could work too), but you can win em all
Tutorial for Blender: https://youtu.be/NNJiVmC1-kA
There is a Lego cherry blossom bonsai. instead of making a custom part for the flowers, they use pink frogs.
Or buy a lego bonsai
Why should a hobby be a competition?