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I was saying this at first I now see more and more evidence that Russians as a whole aren't wholly innocent.

Firstly can't ignore the rise of putin and him gaining more power & popularity after similar attacks. He at least used to be broadly popular, even though he messes with the actual elections.

And a LOT of Russians support the war.

Here is a poll I put in another comment puts at 58% support. I read another I think from Navalny said 50% but I can't find it so grain of salt.

complicated given they only see lies on TV.

But at this point the conscript soldiers know what they are doing. A lot of Russians ARE connected to the West and know the truth.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/08/russia-publi...

At some point you have to take personal responsibility for the leaders you elect or your failure to keep a poor leader from office. If you didn't vote for them due to apathy or whatever, it's not an excuse. Apathy can have its own form of malignant harm. If your leader is causing global malignancy and harming innocents, only so much sympathy can be invested in the general population from others. Also from what I've gathered from other Russians, not just ones friendly to westerners which are more prone to be against the war, it seems just as many Russians are for the war as against it.
What a novel repudiation of the very concept of tyranny. Are any governments really oppressive, when they're all actually operating according to the consent of the governed? Why do tyrants even bother with the apparatus of repression? The population is technically repressing itself, according to this view.
Some did. If most would object you would see millions in streets, not few thousands.
> If most would object you would see millions in streets, not few thousands.

Not when the consequence of that is being beaten up, tortured, and then put in prison for up to 15 years (as per the recent law changes). Oh, and getting your relatives punished as well, despite them having nothing to do with it. Here is a take on it from Human Rights Watch[0]. Just the knowledge of such consequences makes a person just shut down, carry on, and not worry much about anything except your own and your family's survival.

Side-tangent: sometimes I really do wonder what kind of cushy and sheltered lives some users on HN live, where they instantly jump to "if people don't protest in millions, it means they support Putin". I think I am pretty comfortable now, but I still very clearly remember what it was like living in Russia (before I escaped to the US over a decade ago), so these types of replies grind me the wrong type of way.

And yes, there are plenty of people who actually support Putin in Russia, and we need them on our side. Some support him out of ignorance, some for other reasons. But, I think, it is a bit less surprising if you phrase it as "Plenty of Russian people supported the special operation for liberating people in Ukraine". It is a blatant lie, but more and more people in Russia are opening their eyes to this being total bs. Sanctions help, outside news drumming up the reporting of the conflict help.

On their own, those things don't seem that wild, but if you couple total brainwashing with extremely severe and brutal consequence for even questioning the narrative, you get an extremely repressed population that will be heavily discouraged (even within their own heads) from protesting.

0. https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/03/09/russia-brutal-arrests-an...

Putin has broad support in the Russian population. And that support went up after the annexation of Crimea and the start of this war. I have family and friends in Russia, all of which have access to international media, and many of them are still at the very least moderately supportive of this.

This narrative that Putin is somehow solely waging a war with the entire population in opposition is an absolute meme. If the Russian people were sick of him they'd depose him, elections or no elections, Russians have done it to their leaders plenty of times.

Plenty of times? Any examples, please? I’m really curious.
start with the February and October Revolutions and go from there. If there's any country that knows how to depose a Tsar, it's Russia.

In any country as vast and populous like Russia leaders always depend on the consent of the governed autocratic or not. I know it doesn't fit into this comical worldview where every Russian is secretly an American yearning to breathe free, oppressed by Putin.

It's one single example. Sponsored and organized by the west :) What are multiple cases? All the next rulers have died quietly in old age.

I hope putin will be the second case.