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I worked at Microsoft around the time of the Windows Vista disaster, and one of the big lessons that came out of that era was solve distractions, not discoverability. Windows and other Microsoft products tried to make features (and products) "discoverable" by pushing them on you with alerts and banners, but the result, when multiplied by dozens of product teams and PMs, was an overall user experience that was noisy and unpleasant.
Looks like a new generation of engineers and designers is ready to learn this lesson the hard way again!
I have Windows 10 on my laptop and the other day it forced me to decide on if I wanted to update to Windows 11 or not in a "Now or Never" kind of way before even startup occurred... Even after a reboot, the computer was totally prevented from being useable until I answered the question, so I could not even search to see if it was an exploit, or even if the upgrade was successful for other users with the same model laptop as me.
It's very troubling to me how a device (that I paid a lot of money for mind you) would do this without any sort of courtesy, and in such a disrespectful manner. This is the issue with modern software development, even the things we buy can be suddenly changed at the drop of a dime into a subscription service cash cow for big industry and we'll have no choice of escaping it all. Consumer Protection has failed us totally because they too invested deeply into these extortionist big corporations. The ads will only get worse year after year because it's all shareholder driven, and they will likely lobby other software and hardware manufacturers to not support alternate options like Linux. Good luck everyone.
In the Vista days they at least tried to do the right thing; it was still an era where computers were tools to serve the user, not to exploit/abuse them, most business models were still "sell a thing people need/want at a profit", and the current state of telemetry & ad-related tracking would've still been considered "spyware" and would've led to massive outrage and maybe even legal consequences.
Nowadays, they don't even try to do "the right thing", or at the very least, the meaning of "the right thing" has been corrupted in many parts of the tech industry. "Growth and engagement" is seen as a completely normal and valid business model and pervasive stalking (that would make spyware from a decade ago super jealous) became socially-accepted.
This is maybe the dominant pattern of bad software design: Writeups describe a good idea, umbrella terms emerge to refer back to it ("discoverability"), and inexperienced designers/engineers try to implement the idea based only on the one-word description and the common knowledge surrounding it, rather than actually learning about the topic it describes. (Maybe they took a corporate learning course on the topic, created by people with similarly inadequate competence on the topic). It's like a game of telephone taken to the logical extreme. They are attempting to use lessons from others' successes, but the end result is even worse than if the designers/engineers used nothing but their own common sense to architect in an information vacuum.
This particular cause of abysmal, insulting UX is common in new teams with no experience among the staff, but there's just no word for how embarrassing it is that Microsoft suffers from it so often too.
Why do you think they don't know this will be annoying but intend to do it anyway to shift revenue sources?
My personal opinion is:
Microsoft told us they see Windows 11 as the "last" version. From now on Windows is a service that pushes continuous updates. The OEM deals are still generating revenue but the strategy shift means no more selling retail upgrades.
It makes total sense that Microsoft would now prioritize adding new revenue sources. I would expect more "parterships", ads, telemetry/tracking, and so forth. The money is just too juicy and Windows is slowly transitioning to be a cost center instead of revenue center which makes the pressure to find revenue even higher. Plus with PC upgrade cycles getting longer and the overall PC market somewhat leveling off (days of 50% yoy growth are long gone) revenue was going to stagnate no matter what.
Microsoft employs a lot of smart people. They know users don't want any of this. The desire to find new revenue is a higher priority. Anyone not on-board with the "Windows client versions are now a 'marketing channel' and 'partnership opportunity'" will leave or find themselves reorg'd to "align business priorities".
Is writing some new feature going to move the needle after the OEMs fill the system up with spyware/adware? It isn't going to increase PC sales by 20% this year so it isn't going to generate more OEM license sales and zzzzzzz (look the VPs already fell asleep during your presentation).
Is fixing bugs going to get kudos, or just create more support tickets as your bug fix accidentally breaks some old garbage "business critical" software relying on the broken behavior? It sure isn't going to sell more copies of Windows since that isn't something MS does anymore.
But putting ads in Explorer and generating $50m in new revenue? Now that will get you a promotion and bonus!
I don't know why the people hate Vista, but it was my favorite Windows version ever. I like the glowing transparent bars so much in it. It was first, as far as remember. Some KDE window managers also had it but windows's was so much better. I think it is also important, I find it very attractive when the title bars are glowing and transparent.
In other words: the last generation did not train the new one, and usability is expected to suffer.
Also, there are few to no replacements. Because at some point, the last generation decided Windows was the only real OS. Oops!
Have a look at the adobe acrobat interface, I can't believe how complicated it is, and often comes up with prompts, side menus, adverts for other versions, and a tiny space to actually view your file.
I regret that the computing experience in 2022 has to be so atrocious. But it is necessary to understand that general computing has its limit when the user does not want to make the effort to have independence [to educate themselves on the operation of a von Neumann machine].
There is a whole GNU/Linux ecosystem [as well as a few others], mature and reliable. I even feel sorry for the user who, for one reason or another, prefers to be spoon fed by the Windows system. As you can see, there is a price to pay for the convenience of ignorance [hey, everybody uses Windows!].
Or it may be that general computing, the noble goal of bringing computing for the masses, is just an illusion, and cannot be done without gatekeepers like MS.
It's very charitable to assume that they just don't understand. Personally I think they understand perfectly well that ads reduce the value of their offering but don't care because money.
I look forward to the Microsoft brigade telling me again that none of the following exists:
- ads in file explorer
- ads on the lockscreen
- ads as notifications
- ads in the start menu
- ads in the "change file association" dialog
- ads in the apps (e.g. solitaire)
- mandatory updates that cannot be disabled and reboot your machine without asking
- pc turning itself on in the middle of the night OR when in my backpack to install updates
- un-disableable spyware ("telemetry")
Does anyone make a serious OS for people who need to get real work done on their computer anymore?
Some recent frustrations with the big 3 OSs:
1. MacOS: The File>Save dialog has a unchangeable 35 character limit for what can be viewed in the file name field. WTF?! It's like these jokers have never worked in a real office where people create documents with dictated naming conventions like [Customer Name]_[Project Name]_[Project subtask]-[Date]. Maybe they think it is a way to force businesses to use Tags? Dear Apple, your OS seems toy like.
2. Linux: There is an age old Ubuntu bug (which bleeds into many Ubuntu based Distributions) where the installer wipes out the bootloader of a drive that you aren't even installing the OS on. Dear open source community: your desktop OSs are still hobbyist tweaker mode. I
3. Windows: First data mining telemetry and now you are going to show me ads? Dear MS, you keep trying to be Google or Facebook and all it has done is undermine a once serious OS.
(note that this is just a "what pissed me off this week list" and not intended to be a comprehensive criticism)
Microsoft, if you're listening; Ads in Windows, is what pushed me to leave. I have no intention of ever returning. Ads in the tools that I use for my work are unacceptable.
I solely use Windows 11 at home right now and can even take ads in Solitaire or something, but placing ads in system tools is a red line for me. I'd have to move to Linux again if this becomes true with no way of disabling it by officially supported methods, and do some of my current desktop development for Windows in a virtual machine.
That's just unacceptable. I'm glad I left Microsoft products behind at the end of the Windows 7 era. Linux on the desktop for years now.
Wine is getting pretty good. If I really have to run a Windows executable, I can.
I'm even developing something that has to work cross-platform. I compile in Rust with
--target x86_64-pc-windows-gnu
Wow. And the Audacity of Microsoft to use the warning icon next to the ad:
https://mobile.twitter.com/flobo09/status/150264586620470477...
I’ve been noticing this for a while, but I no longer “own” my devices. I’m buying the product and continually paying for it with my attention. Everything I have can be taken away.
Empty spaces filled with ads, telemetry with zero opt-out, data watched by thousands of eyes, DRM for home appliances.
At what point will people do something about this? I have a feeling that even though all of us use technology for hours every day, only a few have even a basic understanding of what they are doing. Everyone else isn’t even aware of what’s happening and blindly click away their rights.
MS with the file explorer ads, Apple with settings ads, Samsung with its TV ads. They've normalised ads in paid software.
My favourite is when you open the Galaxy Store on a flagship Samsung phone and a popup with a promoted game is shoved in your face every single time.
The popup will often have a 3 second delay before it interrupts you due to the performance issues of their ad servers, so you open the app store and just wait there for the inevitable popup to appear before you can dismiss it to continue using the app.
The "Get news and special offers" option is disabled in the app, but none of that matters, the popup ads at app start are there on all Samsung Galaxy devices I've tested.
This is nonsensical, I am a pretty big Microsoft advocate, but there is no need in this. Whatever bonehead in Microsoft thought of this should be fired.
This has the potential to become a serious security risk. Picture the following - you're running File Explorer with admin creds, all while invoking a malvertisement.
I have primarily used Linux for ~15 years. At this point I honestly believe that it's less painful to switch from Windows to Linux than the other way around.
It's obviously still painful to change habits. And I won't downplay how Linux can often be difficult to get working perfectly.
The problem with Windows is that it just feels downright user hostile. Ads here and there, MS products constantly pushed, wizards everywhere, taskbar icons for every piece of hardware. It's like you are renting your PC instead of owning it.
I'm really sad for people who can't run away from Windows because of work and/or programs they use or because they can't. Ads seem the solution for every failure in making money out of software and it's sad.
Some days ago I just randomly downloaded uTorrent and I was scared by the amount of ads they embedded. I think it's a taste of what Windows will be like if they take this direction.
Two things standout to me here.
One is, whatever your opinion on ads on file explorer see might be, using the triangle/exclamation mark Hazard signage for ads is absolutely unacceptable.
The other is, is it just me, or is all the negative press about Microsoft these days caused by the Windows division?
We’re rapidly approaching https://i.redd.it/67inxepejfqz.png
It's an interesting thing to read people complaining about their shitty Windows experience and yet continuing to use Windows in of changing their computer's OS.
Another thing is that people forget about software ownership.
You don't own your computer's OS, Microsoft does,and according its abusive terms of service that no one cares about, they can do whatever they want with their products, including show you ads or anything that disrupt your experience, because the OS is made to serve them, not you.
Every bad day for Microsoft is a good day for Linux.
Better question: Where in windows won't there be any ads? Will there be ghost ads behind the command line interface? Will they sell space on the BSOD?
Microsoft seem desperate to be in the ad business, but don't have any sites that anyone visits or any wortwhile search engine that effectively controls access to the Internet for the majority of the users. The only "Microsoft surface" left where they can stick advertising is the pixels they control via the OS.
I may have a good way of capturing this sentiment:
"We are Putin ads in File Explorer!"
I miss the days when Windows didn't treat me with open contempt.
This makes me nervous. I am realising we are at the end of a giant saas experiment. Get users, monetise them later. If Microsoft take the OS down this route then I am offski. It's not about parting with cash, it's about forcing crap on people who don't want it.
Business idea: ads in git status
I've spent a lot of time learning how to use the Win32 api and overall I like using the Windows OS. But the user hostile design decisions of the UI/UX is making it more and more likely that I'll move on. I don't want ads, I don't want cloud, I don't want a store. I just want to use _my_ computer.
Microsoft act with utter contempt for their users. I now recommend to anyone who asks me that they purchase a Mac instead. Their machines will last longer, they will get better customer support, and they won’t have to put up with stupid shit like this. I can’t in good conscience recommend Windows any longer.
Ads in paid software? This is simply ridiculous.
Lots of people asking about alternatives to Windows here. I've found Ubuntu-MATE to be very good for my needs. It uses the Ubuntu base which gives it access to the debian software repo as well as being a popular distro so often particular use-cases have been fixed for it. However the MATE aspect is a follow-on from an older desktop environment (Gnome 2), which is a fairly no-nonsense, feature rich and polished environment. It remains under active development and keeps thing simple. I prefer this to the changing sands that is Gnome 3 / Unity or Ubuntu's adaption of Gnome 3.
I wonder if this will make its way into the Enterprise LTSC version or not.
I will likely be recommending it -- we really do NOT have an alternative to Windows (and I know someone will try to be clever about it and make any number of suggestions that aren't going to actually work for us) -- but I can imagine some fairly large software vendors starting to consider Linux compatibility just because of how noxious this is.
I expect paid software not to have ads.
If you’re not paying for Windows then you’re not the customer, you’re the product.
I can’t imagine Enterprise versions of Windows will have this enabled.
Debian Stable user here. I used to use Win 7, which I was happy with. I never used Win 10, except at a library.
The chances are minimal that I will install wither Win 10 or 11 on my machine. Why should I pay beaucoup dollars for an OS that thinks it's their machine, when I can get a free, no-hassle one that does what I want it to do?
I've noticed that there's been a certain amount of historical revisionism, too. People are saying how great Win 10 was. Win 10 great?? Are you mad? I've read complaint after complaint as to how bad Win 10 is. Microsoft has done a real number on peoples' expectations about what constitutes good and bad. Meanwhile, on Debian, the OS just stays out of my way.
Mozilla has been giving off a "feudal overlord" vibe for some time now, too.
I do use VSCode on Linux on occasion, though. It's actually quite a nippy piece of software. I dread anything involving Java like Eclipse. Of course, real programmers use vim anyway.
I'd suggest switching to Linux but I suspect the most common response will be a Lemongrab-esque "UNACCEPTABLE."
Actually I'm okay with the idea, but only under these conditions:
* They are "to the side", not pop-ups and not blocking or pushing primary content into canned sardines.
* One can close/minimize them to make room when needed.
* They are clearly ads and can't be mistaken for normal content, because you know sleazy marketers (ad purchasers) will try to trick viewers.
* One can pay more to get an ad-free version, or even tiered so one can choose multiple levels between parting with money and annoyance level.
* User can change spam level/features down the road without a big change-fee.
* Does not mine personal info to target ad content, or at least offer a clear and easy way to opt out of targeted ads and related personal content mining.
* Doesn't use "dark UI patterns" to trick users out of money, into loss of privacy, etc. (Amazon is doing more of that, it's friggen annoying.)
I guess they know windows is on-the-way-out if they're trying to eek the last bit of cash from it like this
Thankfully I spend >=90% of my time in Linux or Apple based operating systems these days. When support for Windows 10 dries up, hopefully Proton will be up to snuff or I'll just have to kiss some of my steam library goodbye. That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
Microsoft can shove it.
Ah, reminds me of the good old days when I connected a Windows 98 box directly to the public Internet and was spammed every 10 minutes with WinPopup messages, instructing me to visit a dodgy website for "registry booster virus removal".
I'll certainly enjoy the throwback to simpler times.
Good thing “Files” already exists, then: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/files-app/9nghp3dx8hdx?act...
Just today, discovered a couple apps on my son's Windows profile that he must have accidentally installed since just browsing Windows can cause you to accidentally install apps from the Microsoft Store.
After I uninstalled them, I went to hide them from the Store to prevent the same issue, and nope. Microsoft won't even let you hide apps that you accidentally installed now from the Store. This is in addition to not being able to delete apps from your account either that you installed from their pathetic Store.
Don't get me started on them collecting everything you click on and search for in Windows as well even if you disable telemetry by simply logging into a Microsoft account for the Windows Store (for example, if you use Xbox for PC).
“This file is sponsored by Squarespace. How dystopian.
When I was reading the comments, I remembered that all this s#it was already predicted by one man that people love to hate:
Maybe we don't need Windows anymore. Even Elden Ring works pretty well using wine.