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by andsoitis·4y ago·view on hn ↗
> People need lots of things. The principal constraints on real estate are political. (The entire concept of real estate is a social construct.) Not physical space.

Even if (the amount of) physical space isn't one of the main constraints on real estate, any particular location may be more desirable relative to others, e.g. a gorgeous view, away from factories or highways.

2 comments
> any particular location may be more desirable relative to others, e.g. a gorgeous view, away from factories or highways

It's politics, usually, keeping the factories and highways away. More fundamentally, the notion that a piece of paper (the deed) gives you certain rights (but not others) over some land is totally made up.

> It's politics, usually, keeping the factories and highways away.

I don’t see how this changes the fact some locations are more desirable than others.

> More fundamentally, the notion that a piece of paper (the deed) gives you certain rights (but not others) over some land is totally made up.

It is very useful though, otherwise how would I know where to sleep tonight? By lottery a few hours before the sun sets?

> is very useful though

Totally agree! Most social constructs are! That’s why we keep them. Something being a social construct isn’t a diminishment of it. Governments, laws, families and religions are all social constructs and all highly useful.

This is true. It’s also true that “your body” is just a social construct. The rabbit hole of “property is just an idea” doesn’t end well for humans who seek agency.
Land exists independently of your labor, predating and (hopefully) postdating your existence by billions of years. Your body does not.
"Your body" is a hierarchy of cells, cellular processes, and organs, all of which consume energy. And in increasingly many cases, "your body" has prosthetic augmentations or very difficult to produce medicine, without which you will cease to survive. If you can argue that those things are "human rights", then I can easily argue that "human rights" include shelter, peace of mind, a basketball court, ad infinitum. Perhaps more accurately: property is simply an extension of humanity that is granted by other humans. Again, taking away "property" won't end well for humans who wish to control their destiny, as parts of "your body" could gradually be deemed "property" and now you're at risk of life and liberty.
That "property" is just a series of laws and agreements that we can change arbitrarily is neither a tricky concept nor a slippery slope. A body is not a series of laws and agreements that we can change arbitrarily, it's a hunk of meat. "Your body" can be a social construct if you want it to be, but that probably means that you're having a disassociative episode.
Chattel slavery wants a word with you.
> Chattel slavery wants a word with you

Chattel slavery underlines the point. What is and isn’t property is decided, arbitrarily, by people. Because property is a social construct.

What is and isn’t someone’s body does not depend on others accepting it has meaning. How it’s treated does. But my body has inherent value to me independent of others’ perceptions of it. This is, at its core, the problem with slavery.

If we reject property being a social construct we reject the fact that the government, a social construct itself, could have legalised and then outlawed slavery. Because if property is inherently meaningful, how can the government poof it away?

Nah, it's social constructs all the way down. A location might have gorgeous views, but if it's in a rural area and urbanization intensifies (think pre-pandemic), it will left in the dust as jobs and businesses dry up. Same goes if it's in downtown and it gets hollowed out (eg. white flight).
Do animals have social constructs? Because they have dens and territory that they use to survive as well. Property is a pretty universal value.
> they have dens and territory that they use to survive as well

A bear's den isn't its property any more than a park bench slept on becomes the slumberer's own.

Property, specifically, the system that relates a person to some land via a bundle of use rights, is a deep human construct. It likely goes back to the dawn of agriculture and civilization [1].

[1] https://books.google.com/books?id=f_roIy7ceEsC

> A bear's den isn't its property any more than a park bench slept on becomes the slumberer's own.

A bear, however, will use (and indeed seek to monopolize) violence to defend its den. That makes it property, at least until the bear relinquishes its claim (or something - or someone - else challenges its monopoly on violence).

> bear, however, will use (and indeed seek to monopolize) violence to defend its den. That makes it property

That makes it territory. The simplest definition of property might be use rights one doesn’t need to use violence to defend. (Countries don’t have property.)

> The simplest definition of property might be use rights one doesn’t need to use violence to defend.

For something to be property entails all of:

- usus: the right to use it;

- fructus: the right to profit or otherwise benefit from it; and

- abusus: the right to destroy it, alter it, or otherwise exclude others from it

Abusus is in and of itself violence (specifically, theft) unless consented to by all other members of society. By "use rights" you might be thinking of something like usufruct, which is distinct from property and (as you correctly assess) does not necessarily entail violence or the monopolization thereof.

> Countries don’t have property.

Of course they do: their sovereign territory. It is indeed that property, enforced via a country's / nation-state's monopoly on violence - from which all land ownership derives (hence: that piece of paper called a "deed" that would be useful only as kindling or sanitary napkins if not for the state enforcing it).

A bear's den isn't it's property, it's somewhere the bear lives. If a den were a bear's property, the bear would have paperwork.