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It's shocking to me that anyone would pay for this. Tesla has been selling fsd since 2014, and nearly a decade later they aren't that much closer.
Between the low reliability, low build quality, and scammy practices, Tesla has turned their lead into a vulnerability.
Once other manufacturers catch up to the battery range, Tesla will have their lunch eaten.
And I say this as someone who has owned a Tesla for over 8 years.
It would seem the market (and more current engineering and design reviews) disagrees with you!
There are many people who have bought FSD from Tesla, and have had their car reach end of life without ever getting to enjoy FSD.
It's possible after being "less than a year away" for... a decade... that it may be less than a year away now. But it looks like a bit of skepticism has been earned.
It's shocking to me that people are willing to pay to be beta testers for Tesla's entirely-from-scratch manufacturing process and smartphone-with-wheels style of car experience but it doesn't matter what I think - that's the beauty of capitalism.
The market considered NFTs highly valuable too, until it didn't.
> Between the low reliability, low build quality
FWIW we have a 2018 Model 3 and a 2022 Model Y and both have had very minor or no manufacturer issues. Both have never needed anything other than minor, at home service from Tesla (mostly tire swaps).
A single example does not make for a general rule. Aside from the fact that thank fucking god a less than 1 year old car and a less than 4 year old car should not have some manufacturer issues, Tesla still has a dreadful 226PP100 (as in, each Tesla tested had on average 2.6 problems in a single year), even worse than the industry average (which includes some truly terrible constructors).
> since 2014, and nearly a decade later they aren't that much closer
That is just an absurd statement. AlexNet came out in 2012 and ResNet in 2015 but somehow Tesla had something "close" to the current FSD in 2014? They're heavily using Transformers now which came out in 2017. They have demonstrated leaps in performance since the first version of FSD Beta two years ago.
> That is just an absurd statement.
No it isn't. It is also not early days either and we have given FSD enough time to meet the claims of achieving Level 5 with those strong and 'confident' deadlines even set by Musk himself, which he knew he couldn't meet, but the gullible customers and fans rushed in and fell for it anyway.
Not only they have all been missed, this year, Tesla finally admitted that it was Level 2 and it still doesn't work in the most dangerous time to drive which is at night. FSD (Fools Self Driving) is no where near close in the nearly ten years it has existed.
This is an obvious over-promising of a broken product with the pied-piper selling it to their fans scam.
Yeah? It was a toy then, and it's a toy now.
Yes, it's a much better toy, but it's still a toy.
> low reliability, low build quality
These are improving at an astonishing rate, like a Web app rather than a car. Yes, this means the first ones were so bad they really shouldn’t have been shipped. But the newer models (of Y especially, X hasn’t been redesigned) are really a different world.
Hot tip, ship fast and break things doesn't work when you're talking about putting out a 2 ton, gigantic battery out in the world that is expected to last for over 20 years. This is a gigantic waste. Any other company would have been crucified for putting out such a shit car, and the only reason Tesla survived it is because they had funny meme man to do damage control.
Have they fixed the panel gaps and paint issues?
Scammy practices?
Solar shingle presentation? Autonomy investor day?
What are you talking about? I watch FSD progress, and it's clearly getting closer to human level driving. Just go on YouTube and compare FSD from two years ago to the latest. It's night and day. Yes, it still makes mistakes. Humans make mistakes all the time while driving.
As for build quality, we haven't had any major problems with our Model 3. It's a great car.
Tesla has a media problem, where every little problem gets reported as if it's systemic and unfixable.
I recently rented a 2022 Model 3 from Hertz for 9 days. It didn't have the FSD option available, but it did have the preview of what the system would see. Based on that alone, I was alternately impressed and terrified of what the FSD experience would be like. It was mostly accurate in showing other vehicles, but some of their trajectories when turning in front of me looked like a really bad video game with weird orientations and jumpiness. People crossing the road were sometimes picked up and sometimes not. It showed the traffic lights, but didn't display any understanding of turn lane traffic lights. I had the warning for following too close enabled, and it mostly worked but it got confused going through a parking lot once. If this is meant as an advertisement for FSD, I'm not convinced.
Autopilot has basically been shelved for the past 2 years as they've been working on FSD, which will replace the current AP stack. Go have a look on Youtube, there are thousands of videos where you can see the visualizations, it's night and day.
To save you the click, here's one released today with the latest version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCTssX2VdKA
What's the rationale for renting an EV? Isn't it more troublesome because you probably won't have a charger in whatever place your staying, so you can't charge it overnight?
The Autopilot visualization is different than the FSD visualization, and the FSD UI shows significantly more detail. Go search YouTube for some FSD videos and you’ll see what it looks like.
Charge more = fewer buyers = fewer accidents = less bad press. That Elon, what a smart guy!
Elon really does believe in a utopia where no public transportation exists and everyone drives around I, Robot style.
We really need competition in this space (FSD) if we want prices to go down.
For anyone considering paying for this, check out Comma AI. It may do enough of what you're looking for, and it's only $2k.
What does FSD even means?? There is no mention of that in the author’s thread. Please stop with acronyms!
Full self driving - the snake oil Tesla sells to improve their bottom line.
Tesla advertised: 'Full Self Driving'
But in reality: 'Fools Self Driving'
It was advertised by Tesla and as a Level 5 system. However, given that never happened, it is now known as 'Fools Self Driving' since not only it doesn't work, requires constant full assistance and attention of the driver behind the wheel at all times, it is been admittedly a Level 2 system who's creator gives the endless promises of updates in order to fool the customer that it will 'eventually' be 'Full Self Driving'.
So Tesla can continue to raises prices on this false promise and customers will keep buying, subscribing on the idea that they are hoping that it will be fully self driving, which is the typical pied piper selling snake oil scam.
Let's list off software that is $15k per license that cannot transfer to a new machine.
(I own FSD on two cars because I like toys)
For the price of one Tesla FSD, you could buy three Tern GSDs - an electric-powered bona fide car replacement that exists right now.
Sir, that's an electric bike.
I wouldn’t have an issue with this if the upgrade went with the car, but the idea that it turns back off when the person whose driveway it lives in changes is too close to IAPs for me.
If it has an ongoing cost for Tesla, I’m happy to pay for a subscription and perhaps an activation fee. If it’s built-in to the vehicle and requires a configuration for how I like to drive, I’d love to pay an expensive, one-time setup fee to configure my specific vehicle and perhaps a (small) upgrade fee when major versions are released.
But this idea that Tesla wants to have the best of both worlds (massive fees that reoccur) while I get the worst of both worlds (massive fees for a value that I can’t sell/transfer) is one of the two big reasons I can’t see getting a Tesla (even though I would love to).
>If it has an ongoing cost for Tesla, I’m happy to pay for a subscription and perhaps an activation fee
They do have a subscription based model https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscription...
If you sell your car, the software goes with it.
It WILL NOT follow you to the next car though. It’s VIN locked (which is BS, no consumer software is hardware locked like that in a normal computing space).
That is quite substantial inflation correction. Is Tesla struggling for money or can the finally deliver fully working product?
Whatever you think of Elon/Tesla this has been the plan for a long time and has nothing to do with inflation: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1117116982778679297
Musk once argued that once full self-driving works, it would be more profitable for Tesla to use these cars for an own taxi service than it would be to sell them to customers. They plan to raise the price even more the closer they (claim to) get to their goal.
Musk is creating FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out).
Just like the ICOs in 2017 where the price would increase every day.
Paid 7k for mine, I enjoy it.
When I buy my next Tesla wouldn’t pay for it though.
The thing that would make it worth buying at this price is when I can send the car 200 miles away to like go pick up my parents or something. Anything short of not being in the car though is just a party trick.
Do you actually have FSD? My understanding is most people who paid for it haven't been allowed to actually install the software yet.
People can buy this with their eyes wide open, or not. At this point, fsd has been scrutinized so much that absolutely noone can claim ignorance.
And people still buy it because it's the best money can buy right now. It's not perfect but it's there and getting better with every release.
It's not going to work. I happen to be friends with a top AI researcher and he laughs it off completely. "No way." He referred me to this:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-tesla-self-dr...
"It's all hype," said Steven E. Shladover, a retired research engineer at the University of California, Berkeley who has been involved in efforts to create autonomous driving for 45 years. "The technology does not exist to do what he is claiming. He doesn't have it and neither does anybody else."
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It's not close to working at all. Musk must know it.
I used to think FSD without lidar was just too far away (a decade+), but I've been checking every now and then of FSD beta progress for a couple of years now, and at the current rate of progress I changed my mind and I believe that in 2 or 3 years, and with one more hardware upgrade, it will be done.
Their latest 10.69 FSD (released yesterday) is quite impressive already.
How can he know which tech TESLA have? I mean a lot of AI breakthroughs, like transformers or alpha fold came from the industry and not academia.
Musk must be getting pretty desperate as his lawyers tell him he is going to have to follow through on the Twitter acquisition and his financial analysts are predicting the market will not be where he was hoping when it happens.
Why not? Everyone knows that when you’re running a scam and things get rough you don’t back down, you double down.
The guy just got a free $7500 courtesy of the tax payer for every car he sells.
Maybe he is confident, that they can deliver.
This is ultimately why I believe Elon Musk isn't the right guy to lead Tesla anymore and hasn't been for a while.
Car companies live and die by attracting new customers but also by bringing back existing customers. Lots of car brands bend over backwards to keep you coming back. When you fail to deliver what you've promised or significantly raise prices without delivering value in return, you're not building a loyal customer base.
Between this kind of thing and the way Tesla handles service, it's very clear they don't really give a damn about you as a customer after you've handed over your money.
This is my take and why I’ve never owned one. I’m in process of buying 2 new “luxury” cars for our family and Tesla’s not even in the realm of consideration.
In addition to that more reliable companies are getting electric cars now.
Unsurprisingly and once again, the Fools Self Driving (FSD) scam raises prices on their customers towards a product that is beyond broken and doesn't work.
It is gotten so bad that even the noble and devoted Telsa fans would do anything to defend this contraption, even if it meant risking the lives of their own children, they will still do it for Twitter points, or for their lord and saviour techno-king Elon to notice them.
Who is going to finally tell the Tesla FSD fans that the piped piper (Elon) has repeatedly over promised and scammed his own fans and customers using FSD to the same tune?