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by cainxinth·4y ago·view on hn ↗
Full disclosure, I have a Rad Power bike (mini 4), among many other bikes. It has a 750w motor and accelerates really fast if you give it the beans. It’s a dangerous vehicle if you don’t keep your wits about you. I never let my adult friends ride it without a stern safety briefing beforehand.

So, first, why were an 11 and 12 year old allowed to use a powerful ebike unsupervised? On a big hill, no less. Rad says their bikes are for people 18 and up, yet the parents say the bike belonged to one of the kid’s 13 year old sister.

Second, there is a tiny bit of skill involved in properly tightening a quick release; just because it came loose doesn’t rule out human error. Third, disc brakes and a quick release on the front wheel is a known safety hazard? A staggering number of bikes have that setup. If it’s truly as dangerous as the plaintiffs say, literally hundreds of thousands of bikes will need to be taken off the road.

This is a tragic loss for that family, but I’m failing to see how Rad is to blame to the extent they allege.

3 comments
> Third, disc brakes and a quick release on the front wheel is a known safety hazard? A staggering number of bikes have that setup. If it’s truly as dangerous as the plaintiffs say, literally hundreds of thousands of bikes will need to be taken off the road.

I mean... OK QR Discs on front wheel is tricky, and was a weird 'elephant in the room' during my time as a shop mechanic. The problem is that forces involved will often result in the quick release mechanism loosening over time. This has been long known/documented [0].

They -can- be more dangerous than Vs or Canti's IMO. I know there was a recall within the last couple years somewhat related to this phenomenon; namely that some QR levers could 'open' too wide and get caught in the rotor. -if- Rad had such a QR, then yes it should not have been on the road. [1]

[0] - https://www.sheldonbrown.com/disc-brakes.html

[1] - https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2015/trek-recalls-bicycles-equi...

Your point about the quick release that can open too wide is well made, but to find those on a modern e-bike would be pretty strange. Usually those have been made post that particular recall. Someone might have made a Frankenstein bike but then you wouldn't expect them to sue the manufacturer.

If done properly there should be two pieces of metal hooked into the frame on either side of the shaft to ensure that it doesn't accidentally fall out, long before your wheel falls off you should see it go side-to-side and steer erratically if you don't fix it. Plenty of warning there.

And e-bikes should cut off the motor automatically if the person stops pedaling, if it doesn't then it isn't really an e-bike anymore but more of a moped. So I'm not sure what the power issue with the motor was but that sounds like a lever set to provide continuous power even absent pedal input.

As for that bike: it is't street legal where I live (and was used off road as far as I understand the article), clearly had a maintenance issue rather than a structural defect and the kid that rode it should have never been on it in the first place, these are not kids bikes.

From where I'm sitting it looks like an attempt to assign blame/grab money when blame really should be assigned to whoever let these kids have a bike like that. And if the kids did it without permission then it's on them, which is super sad because of the ending but that's what kids will do.

E-bikes with motors that powerful are not toys, and are not meant to be used by kids. It would be interesting to know if they ever took the front wheel out themselves and maybe forgot to tighten the retainer, or if they self assembled the bike.

Lawyers tend to see problems through a legal lens, and if they can blame the manufacturer they may feel that they have absolved themselves of responsibility, but in my opinion that doesn't really change anything.

Lastly, bikes are always risky. You need to keep your bikes in top condition to be safe (and that can be quite expensive compared to the same number of miles driven with a car) and you need to have some mechanical ability to spot problems. As a (hopefully responsible) parent I always look for trouble on my kids bikes and teach them about it by fixing things together. So far only one of them has fallen and that ended with a couple of scrapes (damage in the schoolyard caused a fender to come loose on the homebound trip). Ironically the person that had the worst biking accident in my extended family is me.

Finally: the bike I ride is heavy and fast enough that I looked for one with a front axle that goes through the frame rather than a dropout. This is not because I'm afraid my front wheel will drop out of the frame on its own accord but simply for reasons of strength, a shaft going through the frame is a much stronger setup than a dropout because it allows for a larger diameter shaft and symmetrically tightens up the retainer nut.

Is it even legal? In the Netherlands, e-bikes with motors >250W, speeds above 25 km/h and/or a twist throttle require a license plate, driver's license and helmet.
Try going up a Seattle hill with a 250W motor. Unless you weigh little and have a geared motor, your going to have a hard time keeping up momentum going up block after block of steep incline.
He said that bikes with >250W motors have to be registered as mopeds, not that they're illegal - Netherlands has hills too. With the registration, there are others rules that usually come, like a minimum age of 16 and having passed a theoretical exam (this differs from country to country).

In any case, a 12 year old on such a powerful bike should be illegal and we'll probably see more cases until the legislation catches up

0-20 in 17 seconds doesn't seem that fast to me.