Item — HN Reader

Here's the summary (mixed with observations from Munro and past Tesla presentations):

- Costs money: the physical sensors (a dozen of them), wiring it up, assembling it, maintain inventory, code it, etc.

- Time spent on maintaining, improving software stack for the non-vision sensors as well as efforts needed to fuse the data with vision, takes away from focusing on vision alone. It also holds back vision in relevant areas.

- Existing non-vision sensors used by Tesla are orders of magnitude lower fidelity than vision. It has historically (as the case with radar) led to vision essentially having to overriding radar because vision just performed much better (see AI day 2021).

My take:

As with any new tech, it likely sucks at the start (think HDD and SSDs, and how a mechanical thing with lots of moving parts was way more reliable than SSDs at the start). However, by essentially moving past the local maxima, you get to innovate better, faster in the future.

In case of ultrasonic sensors, they are for low speed cases anyway and most people are fine without them. Majority of fatalities and injuries happen at higher speeds.

1 comments

That's great for them. But when I'm shopping for a car, I get to choose between a manufacturer that installs the extra sensors and seems to be able to get them to work, and Tesla.

Used to be that Tesla was blazing a trail and if you wanted a good EV, that was what you got. Now, if you want the best EV, it's usually not going to be a Tesla. And I don't see that they're making any decisions that will regain them that title. The incumbent manufacturers are quickly proceeding to eat their lunch, just like many of us predicted would happen. Turns out the hard part of making a successful car isn't the drivetrain.

> Now, if you want the best EV, it's usually not going to be a Tesla.

Would love to hear what you consider "good" and what specific EV ticks the most good features that a Tesla Model 3 doesn't.

360 degree camera on BMW i4. Overall build quality too.

I don't know if you're addressing what makes a good "EV" or just listing some features you personally care about. If the former, then 360 degree camera and build quality has little to do with an EV. Tesla is a young company and build quality has dramatically improved over the years (see Munro) and will continue to do so. Tesla has close to 360 camera coverage, it just hasn't added it in software. All it takes is a software update on existing hardware. If they haven't done it yet, it probably means they have other priorities at the moment.

Some EV specific advantages of Tesla over competition:

- Range: Teslas continue to lead in range, as result of best aerodynamics, best drive train efficiency and vertically integrated design (see Munro - highly integrated component).

- Charging infrastructure: largest available and most reliable (see MKBHD for e.g.).

- Regular software updates improving everything from range, to charge planning (recently added much better estimate based on wind direction, inclination, tyre pressure, weather, etc) to safety, etc.

- and most important of all: Availability and production volume. Best EV in the world isn't worth anything if you can't buy it.

If you look forward and see what Tesla is doing with its manufacturing innovations, it should become clear that things like in-house battery production, single front and rear casting among numerous other things has already secured their top position for sometime to come.

Maybe in US. Tesla has nothing to throw against some serious cars like Mercedes EQS or EQS SUV. Hyundai is also catching up. Charging infrastructure isn’t an issue in Europe anymore and is getting better and better every year. Tesla supercharger for free at the beginning was a big deal. That’s why I am looking for used model X from 2017 right now. 5000€ in free electricity a year is a nice advantage. I also have open order for model Y performance from Berlin factory. Sorry, the lead time shitshow is similar to all others. Every month my order is being delayed by 2 months for months. I have only one additional option ordered - black color. Last time I checked delivery time was updated to “TBD”. Lol.

Edit: this year generous funding for new electric vehicles in Germany is about to end, that’s why the last months of 2022 are so chaotic regarding lead times.

> Tesla has nothing to throw against some serious cars like Mercedes EQS or EQS SUV.

Besides sensationalist comments, do you actually have a list of what areas the Mercedes excel that Tesla doesn't?

I can't take "serious car" seriously - like what, Tesla is kidding?

Let’s talk about my future Model X 2017 with free supercharging. The chassis is disaster from beginning to the end. The car has air suspension, it’s nice. But! You go with low setting, tires don’t last 10k miles. You go with high settings, axles are suddenly broken. After 60000 miles all parts under the car must be replaced. Not funny and not cheap either. Last car I heard of such nonsense was 25 years old Renault Laguna 1. Mercedes or BMW do not need chassis rebuild every 100k km.

Btw EQS has greater range.

Actual interior controls, to start. Tesla needed to save money on the interior and the giant consumer grade LCD was a really great way to do that. But now that the incumbents have entered the game, the standards are going up. The Ioniq 5 has two screens, one in front of the driver, and actual climate controls. The Mach E has a screen in front of the driver, and actual tactile controls as well. This is basically true of all non-Tesla EVs now.

CarPlay? Almost all cars, expensive or cheap, have CarPlay. Except Tesla. And you can throw Android Auto in there too.

Rain sensing wipers. That work, I mean. A firmly established technology at this point that Tesla can't make work. Then they insult you by including substandard manual controls so working around it is a chore.

360* surround camera. You can say that Tesla might have enough cameras on board to do it if they want. But they don't seem to want. So that's a feature that does not exist on a Tesla that I can get on a number of other EVs.

Parking sensors. Blindspot warnings (actual working sensors like most regular cars have now, not the sometimes-it-notices camera-based warnings my Model 3 would occasionally give me). Radar cruise control.

The best hands free driving is SuperCruise, and I can get that on a Chevy Bolt EUV, which costs something like 20 grand less than a Model 3.

I can get OTA updates from other manufacturers too. Notably, without the 'screw you' attitude that Tesla has, where they happily turn off customer features they don't feel the customer should have. Everything from taking away battery range without permission to turning off radar hardware that is already installed. Tesla is a consumer hostile company.

You have a point with the charging network, though that is quickly becoming moot since the non-Tesla networks are collectively growing faster.

Range is good on paper for Teslas, but my real world experience is that my Model 3 never got anywhere near it's EPA rating, my wife's Bolt usually exceeds it. As a practical matter, my P3D had less actual range than the Bolt even though the latter was only rated at 259. At least the supercharger was faster, which meant I spent 10 less minutes charging on our regular 300 mile round trip to Grandma's house.

I'm in the market again for another EV, and I can't find a single compelling reason to go with Tesla. The Model 3 is arguably worse now than the one I bought a few years ago, whereas the competition has been adding new features every year.