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by allanrbo·3y ago·view on hn ↗
Sort of like how UK and EU citizens have to pay $21 for an ESTA when traveling to USA? Surprising that the article doesn't mention that.
6 comments
And still be assumed a Syrian terrorist selling weapons to North Korea with proceeds that were laundered from a Mexican drug lord by default by the “friendly” folks at the border.
US citizens also get hostile treatment from the border guards. It's part of their scheme to pressure liars into breaking.
One time when returning from an overseas country, I was in one of two lines: One for foreigners, and one for US citizens. It was quite the line.

After a few minutes, I was pulled aside and whisked through customs. As I was nearing the exit, a staff member said "welcome home".

It hadn't hit me until later that I was likely skipped ahead due to having a military surplus duffel bag.

No particular point here aside from how silly the whole thing is.

I thought it was because people in American law enforcement are just generally assholes.
Americans in general are pretty exceptionally friendly.

Until they put on a uniform and are tasked with "enforcing" something. It's also pretty exceptional, but in another direction.

Not that I've travelled everywhere, but I haven't seen this in other countries.

If you cross enough times you start to see patterns in their training. A common one is to ask the same question twice like 'where were you born?' or 'where do you live?' with some filler in between. They want to catch you on any inconsistencies. I've gotten noobs that really struggle to maintain the act and get through the questions in a natural way.
It follows that if you wanted a purposefully hostile "customer experience", you'd specifically hire the assholes ;)
Yeah, but it's not just border patrol, customs, etc., it's everyone I've ever seen or interacted with in American law enforcement: they're almost all assholes. It's nothing at all like, for instance, dealing with police or customs officers here in Japan.

There's no way in hell I'd ever ask an American cop for directions, and I look mostly like they do. But here in Japan, I'd never have any fear asking police for directions or help; it's what they're there for. Just interacting with security in airports between the two countries couldn't be more different. Japanese airport security is helpful and courteous. TSA is.... not.

Our border patrol was placed under DHS sometime around 15 years ago, and DHS itself was created as the 'anti-terrorist' security umbrella post 9/11. CBP (customs and border protection) became a catch all gestapo to create the largest federal police force outside of the FBI, and of course one of their biggest subjects to 'inspection' in their anti-terror goals (be sure to read this in a George Bush accent) were none other than citizen John Q Public. Another group you may remember in DHS as every air traveler's favorite is none other than the TSA.

The CBP is ostensibly primarily interested in the border where the "constitution doesn't (fully) apply." IMO this has caused them to become known a jackboot-thug like entities who terrifyingly are now deployed even within the interior of the US, often with poor discipline to their constitutional restraints. Their special response teams were deployed to Portland during the riots, during which some may remember unmarked vans were grabbing citizens off the street (I have no idea if the vans were DHS). Another favorite of theirs is setting up 'immigration checkpoints' which of course conveniently feature local police (milling in the background) who take advantage of using the stop to catch criminal violations without needing to obtain PC/RAS (silly constitutional stuff) to initiate a stop.

The gestapo like roots of CBP has made it the most terrifying, and unrestrained, and poorly monitored of all the federal polices in America. It deserves even more scrutiny that it is already getting.

In the words of CBP, last time I invoked the few rights I had at the border, "now I'm going to show you my (CBPs) rights." And oh, they did.... [0]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33617350#33618162

Literally never happened to me, having crossed back into the US from Europe at least 30 times. Nor to my partner that I just asked, who is brown and has an extremely Muslim name.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it feels wrong to describe it as the norm, unless we have special flags on our passports to be treated well.

I think the more common thing I experience is an indifference from the customs/border agents.

If smugglers are confident wouldn't that mean they're tailoring their inspection specifically to avoid catching smugglers? Seems like a dumb strategy. I realize they can play tough guy interrogator this way and inflate their egos but the calculated reality is maybe you should just assume everyone is lying and move forward accordingly.

Rehearsed confidence and iron clad stories that don't change is the territory of well prepared smugglers, not wide-eyed tourists who can barely keep their memories straight from one minute to the next. Hell I've been known to give answers in entirely different states minutes apart when asked where I'm from by regular people, because in my mind I'm frome a few places and when forced to pick one it's just kind of a dice roll in my head.

It's a toned down version of what Israel does at their airports. I've been through it a few times and watched others get the intense questioning.

Basically, people can confidently lie, but it's almost impossible to keep a story straight when ask about it multiple times from different directions by different people. During intensive questioning at the Ben Gurion airport, you'll get asked about your future travel plans, your past travel history, your family history, their employment and minute details that are hard to prepare for.

Then after 20 minutes, they'll start all over again and ask you similar (not the exact same questions) and throw in a few curveballs with incorrect facts - you tell them you're flying to London to visit your aunt who lives in a house in Chelsea, then 10 minutes later they'll ask "So you said you're flying to London to visit your niece who lives in Chelsea, correct?". A normal person would say "no, like I said, I'm visiting my aunt, I don't have a niece", but someone lying likely would just say "yeah, that's correct".

And basically you won't get on the plane until they are satisfied with the answers.

It's very good at sussing out people out because it's too hard to keep that detailed of a story straight under hours of questioning.

Canada does that too.

Throw out random question, see how you react. A friend got asked “Are you going to import this car illegally?”.

My friend went “huh?” then got waved through.

It’s an interview technique to see how you react.

The sentences are a bit long and convoluted, but it does.

> Electronic Travel Authorization schemes are becoming increasingly popular among developed nations looking to improve security and keep tabs on all who cross into their national territories. ... Since then, numerous other destinations followed suit, including Canada and the U.S., which have facilitated visa-free travel agreements, but expect all non-Canadian and non-U.S. travelers to apply for electronic authorization, or a visa, ahead of flying. Now it's Britain's turn to reciprocate

I'm from NZ and had to pay $21 for an ESTA just to transit in LA on the way to UK.
Plus 10 bucks or so every 90 days for the visa waiver program if applicable.
> Surprising that the article doesn't mention that

To paraphrase someone more famous, "an American is never a foreigner, he belongs everywhere that he goes."

Funny quote. Except I think it's also the case that Americans on the whole don't seem to leave their country as much as other citizens of the "western world." So they're not enjoying these privileges.

Travel into the United States is so terrible and authoritarian, especially after 9/11 -- but I don't think Americans on the whole get it. Because their own country is such a centre of gravity that they don't experience it as much as others, or know the contrast on how things happen elsewhere.

As a Canadian, living next door in a "friendly" country, we used to (before 9/11) be able to cross over with just a driver's license. Now, if I travel by myself without my wife and kids, I'm lucky if I can make it over for a quick ski trip or whatever without being detained and aggressively questioned for an hour and having my car searched. It now happens to me the majority of times.

No, sort of like how the EU is implementing a travel authorization for a fee for Americans traveling to the EU. Surprising you didn't mention that.
Just like how the US requires the same for EU travelers visiting the US? Seems reasonable to require the same going the other way. IIRC, it was the US that first introduced these requirements.