back
▲ 11 points

Ask HN: What do you want in a habit tracker?

by xenodium·3y ago·19 comments·view on hn ↗
I built a habit tracker https://flathabits.com to scratch an itch. I really wanted to do the right thing for the users. The driving principles were as follows:

- Privacy. These are your personal habits (and they stay on your phone). I want zero access to your data.

- Minimal friction. Habit tracking requires dedication, so it should require almost no effort to stay on top of it.

- No gimmicks. Really, no games, prizes, etc. Just want to build an effective tool.

- No lock-in. Your data is yours. It is saved locally to a text file you can inspect or export at any time.

- No sign-up or account. There really is no need for it. Period.

- No social. Social really just gets in the way. These are your habits, focus on them.

- No analytics. None of any kind. If you like the app or there's a bug, just report it.

- Text-based. Not that it matters to many users, but all data is stored to a text file in org mode.

I've used the app thoroghly and managed to rack up a decent year and a half of continuous running and meditation amongst other habits. The app has 114 ratings (across all countries) with a 4.8 score. But, the app hasn're really picked up many users (1-5 daily downloads) even as a free app.

So, what is this habit tracker missing? What do you actually want in a habit tracker?

19 comments
Personally, I think streak freezes like Duolingo are essential. Habit trackers have the potential to be just as destructive as they are constructive. If you have a streak in the hundreds and then lose it inadvertently for whatever reason it can be crushing. Similarly, if you’re trying to get a streak off the ground and you keep failing it can be equally disheartening. I think Duolingo really have nailed the underlying purpose of the habit tracker which is to get you to continue doing the activity you want to do rather than to just show you a precise breakdown of your activities.

Duolingo implementation of this is if you miss a day then the streak doesn’t increase but it’s also not lost either. If you go through all your streak freezes then eventually it is lost but it is quite hard to do this; most people have two and if you pay for Duolingo you normally get an extra one. Subsequently my streak on Duolingo is 846. My current streak on Brilliant which doesn’t implement streak freezes is 0 and my longest streak is 45. I am far, far more motivated to use Duolingo than I am Brilliant and the streak implementation plays a big part in this.

If anyone knows any of the Brilliant devs, please send this comment to them. They seem to be making the app more like Duolingo with leagues and XP but, in my opinion, the streak implementation could be vastly improved.

Thanks for this. I can very much relate. Breaking my running streak was crushing and quite discouraging. I've been contemplating focusing the app more on habit commitment and possibly the total achievement (ie. you've been running for 2 years).
1. Sync with other apps I already use. MyFitnessPal is the biggest example. Todo list apps or workout apps are another. I'm already entering data in these apps, so entering it again in a habit tracker is extra work.

2. Tracking negative habits. I want to tracker whether I refrained from doing something bad as frequently as I want to track doing something good.

3. As automated as possible. The biggest problem with habit trackers is if I'm too lazy to do the habit, I'm also too lazy to enter that in the tracker, so I end up with skewed data.

I hear you on integrating with other apps, but it may take some time until many apps converge on a way to share data. My invalidated guess is the trend is in the other direction at the moment.
I've been using Streaks[1] on iOS for the past few weeks and it's everything I've been looking for. It supports widgets, all data stored locally and can import/export as a csv file, no ads, no tracking, no bullshit. I used to use Loop Habit Tracker[2] on android and it was similarly really good in all the respects you mentioned and more, plus I managed to transfer/convert all my habits over to Streaks when I switched as they're both csv formats.

[1]: https://streaks.app/ [2]: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.isoron.uhabits/

Thanks for sharing. I'll take another look at Streaks. While it sounds like Streaks is ticking the boxes for you, the first few weeks may still be a honeymoon period of sorts in terms of motivation (there's app novelty involved). Price is also a good initial motivator (hey, I just paid for this app). Of course, neither of these could be affecting you. I'd love to hear how you get on after a few months when any novelty may have worn off and look at the app in terms of pure effectiveness in accommplishing your habit goals.
Ability to print onto paper and then OCR. That way my habit tracking can be more independent of the cell phone I’m trying to habitually spend less time with.
Interesting. Can you share a bit more? Would you be carrying a piece of paper and pen with you? Hang it on the wall?
I've been using your app 'flathabits' for over a year (maybe 2) and I love it. You have done right for the users. The intention you put into the app caused me to seek out and start using 'Plain org' as well.

The constructive criticism I have is when I have an 'bad' day or I'm traveling, canceling out each of the daily habits with the 2 step "skip" can be cumbersome. I'd prefer a swipe left or right which would be faster, or maybe 2 buttons (Done,Skip).

As for wider adoption, besides the usability issue above, I use your app because it integrates with my larger org-mode ecosystem (beorg, working copy, emacs) that I sync with my computer. Other comments mention visualization, sync with existing tools, I get that over on the Emacs side so I don't need it in your app.

You've built the great app for a tiny niche market, org-mode users who use iPhone. If you want to expand maybe make the app more intuitive, like others mentioned maybe some visualizations so that the app can stand alone better without org-mode being its primary selling point. I love your app because it is simple, because of the driving principles you put into it, and it syncs with my larger ecosystem.

Your app is great for org-mode people, the issue is that there are not many of us. Please don't undermine your driving principles for a higher download count.

> I've been using your app 'flathabits' for over a year (maybe 2) and I love it. You have done right for the users.

Thanks a lot for sharing. This is wonderful to hear.

> I'd prefer a swipe left or right which would be faster, or maybe 2 buttons (Done,Skip).

This is great feedback and indeed inline with reducing friction as much as possible. Swipe will come. If you aren't already in it, would you mind joinig the TestFlight group? I'd love to share early builds with you. Send me an email address for an invite at "flathabits" + "@" + "xenodium.com".

> If you want to expand maybe make the app more intuitive, like others mentioned maybe some visualizations so that the app can stand alone better

There's a bit of it (https://xenodium.com/images/flat-habits-11-released/multi_da...), but yeah I can look into adding more after addressing usability improvements like swipe actions.

> without org-mode being its primary selling point.

Interestingly, I come with an org mode background but the more I used the habit app on iOS, the less I used org mode for managing habits. The app won hands down in terms of removing friction (super important for maintaining the recording ritual). Eventually, I only used the app and even forgot about the syncing to desktop aspect.

As I’ve recently been testing a bunch of habit trackers for iOS, settling on Routinery for the past few weeks, there’s a few things that seem to be missing:

1. Privacy, subscription-less, tracking-less. Which you’ve covered.

2. A decent widget showing your streak of not breaking the chain. Most of the major habit tracking apps either have no widget or the widget is just to launch a routine set.

3. Timers for each habit item, which then allows you to mark as complete to auto start the next habit and timer, or pause if one is taking a little longer. I’ve found this creates a little more incentive to get them done in succession and want to click that done button even more.

4. Syncs to multiple devices - watch, iPad, phone, etc. I see you can export out of the app but syncing would be helpful.

5. As someone noted in another comment: A way to export and/or print a habit tracker so as to get away from the phone and tech and only come back to log it on the device, should I choose to and snap a quick photo that gets OCR’ed to update the app stats. Maybe a pocketmod.com format could work?

Thank you. This a useful list.

> 2. A decent widget showing your streak of not breaking the chain.

It'll come. I initially wanted to focus on the core experience and remove tracking friction.

> 3. Timers for each habit item, which then allows you to mark as complete to auto start the next habit and timer, or pause if one is taking a little longer.

Interesting. It's the first time I come across timers for habits. How long have you been using timers? I'd love to hear if the timers stick around for you after a few months of tracking.

> 4. Syncs to multiple devices - watch, iPad, phone, etc. I see you can export out of the app but syncing would be helpful.

This one is currently supported by Flat Habits, though purposely hidden until it can be exposed more seamlessly. If you want to try it, first export to a location outside the app (maybe Documents directory?). Then import and select "in-place". Import from your iPad "in-place" also and you get the two syncing.

> 5. As someone noted in another comment: A way to export and/or print a habit tracker so as to get away from the phone and tech and only come back to log it on the device, should I choose to and snap a quick photo that gets OCR’ed to update the app stats. Maybe a pocketmod.com format could work?

Interesting idea, speciallyl using OCR to feed back into the app.

> 2. A decent widget showing your streak of not breaking the chain.

>> It'll come. I initially wanted to focus on the core experience and remove tracking friction.

I use the widgets to specifically remove as much friction to start the habit set and keep the feedback loop constantly in front of me.

> 3. Timers for each habit item, which then allows you to mark as complete to auto start the next habit and timer, or pause if one is taking a little longer.

>> Interesting. It's the first time I come across timers for habits. How long have you been using timers? I'd love to hear if the timers stick around for you after a few months of tracking.

I’ve been using the pomodoro technique for years and habit timers definitely have that same feeling for me. If I’m still trying to instill the same habit set for more than 3 months, I’d consider the app/habit set a failure. I’m looking to start habits, ingrain them, then move onto creating new habit stacks once it becomes rote.

> 4. Syncs to multiple devices - watch, iPad, phone, etc. I see you can export out of the app but syncing would be helpful.

>> This one is currently supported by Flat Habits, though purposely hidden until it can be exposed more seamlessly. If you want to try it, first export to a location outside the app (maybe Documents directory?). Then import and select "in-place". Import from your iPad "in-place" also and you get the two syncing.

Thanks for that!

> 5. As someone noted in another comment: A way to export and/or print a habit tracker so as to get away from the phone and tech and only come back to log it on the device, should I choose to and snap a quick photo that gets OCR’ed to update the app stats. Maybe a pocketmod.com format could work?

>> Interesting idea, speciallyl using OCR to feed back into the app.

Would love to see this since it’s easy to do paper tracking but then there’s no way to integrate the data digitally without a whole other manual process, which is just too much. Melding offline and online would be killer in this space since, like someone noted elsewhere, one of the main habits I’d like to instill is to stop using the phone for everything. So it’s a bit of a catch-22 currently.

Could you share in the offline/paper scenario a bit more? Would you be carrying pen and paper with you for tracking? Hang piece of paper in the wall?
Yes, I’d carry pen and paper or keep it in a notebook that is usually with me. The reason I mentioned pocketmod is because it could be folded down to a tiny booklet, which can easily slip into a pocket or wallet.
I don't use habit trackers because: - lack of analytics / visualization - privacy concerns - too lazy to input data manually

Apple's ecosystem actually comes the closest to solving these but it's a lot of $$$

I just want it to be automated and forget about it until a year later. Wakatime is a good example.
The data has to be automatically collected like with Wakatime. Otherwise I won't ever use it.
I want the data to get there automatically while keeping data privacy and ownership.