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Yes, old cultural expressions of masculinity have outlived their usefulness and become toxic in modern environments. One example, we no longer need to fight off predators, so what used to be valued as protective bravado now gets expressed as violence and aggression directed toward our frustrations. Yet, mainstream feminism has become so anti-masculinity that it leaves very little room for new, healthy versions of masculinity to develop. Our evolved impulses as men are left with little space for healthy expression. My ideals are very egalitarian, I'd love to see a world in which men and women are equal and living in harmony. At the same time, I don't think a new, positive vision for masculinity can come from feminism. Feminists are telling men to act more female: don't be competitive, get in touch with the softer emotions, cry more, etc. And while there is definitely a place for men to get in touch with their feminine emotions, we are still evolutionarily predisposed to have masculine emotions. How can we express our innate emotions like frustration, anger and aggression and channel them into healthy expressions that fit in modern life? I believe that we can do that. We need men's movements that cultivate positive masculinity. Movements that tell us what to do with our natural impulses to be physically strong and fight against threats with our bodies. Not feminine visions of masculinity, but neither victim-based visions like incels or men's rights activists.
We did not need to defend against predators since at least a thousand years, very likely for a much longer time frame. The latest enemies weren't some wild beast, it was famine and infighting. I doubt we have really moved beyond either to be honest.

But still, the point I was trying to make is that if this is relevant to shape behavior and didn't happen yet, it doesn't have to happen between 1970 and 2023.

> since at least a thousand years

A thousand years is nothing on an evolutionary timescale. If you traveled back in time 1000 years you'd be amazed to find that humans were identical to how they are now.

> My ideals are very egalitarian, I'd love to see a world in which men and women are equal and living in harmony.

But we're not equal - by definition. We're diverse and complementary.

What is it that drives the ravenous appetite of liberalism to flatten all diversity out of the world into a homogenous mass of goo?

I don't mean equal in the strict programming sense. Clearly men and women are very different. I mean equally balanced, yin and yang.
> What is it that drives the ravenous appetite of liberalism to flatten all diversity out of the world into a homogenous mass of goo?

If it’s (classic) liberalism that does that I’d say it’s probably because that’s what people individually want.

But I think it’s in many cases the other way around. For example, gender differences in career choices tend to increase with economic prosperity and liberalism.

> What is it that drives the ravenous appetite of liberalism to flatten all diversity out of the world into a homogenous mass of goo?

Fear mostly. But that isn't liberalism, it is much more the opposite. Self identification of political parties doesn't mean anything.

> As a result, many men are struggling to fulfill their own outmoded expectations of what a man should be. “The problem with feminism, as a liberation movement, is not that it has ‘gone too far,’” Reeves writes. “It is that it has not gone far enough”—that is, it has not succeeded in replacing traditional models of masculinity with something more adequate to our current circumstances. The Western male is stuck in a culture of masculinity that is now desperately mismatched with his material reality. “Women’s lives have been recast,” Reeves writes. “Men’s lives have not.” Men have been consigned to “cultural redundancy.”

It’s pretty simple. Adapt or perish. Big generational change is not uncommon.

> Adapt or perish

So they should be a man, basically. You can put the same message in different words, but the meaning stays the same.

I think this is a bit naive and also insulting to say the topic would be about self-image in the first place. The economic realities have changed, sure. Former skills became irrelevant, others more important.

Still, in the grand scheme of things, for the relevant group not much has changed. Go to work or perish is as as true today as it was in 1970. Just that the middle class shrank considerably and people are not able to afford housing or significant luxury. That has indeed changed and has nothing to do with men/women in particular.

> Now, unlike many men working in factory jobs, the male nurse is solidly middle-class.

Not really. Nurses are not paid very well for the work they do. The article claims they would be middle-class. But only if you change the definition from the definition 50 years ago. Again just a worsened economic development.

>That has indeed changed and has nothing to do with men/women in particular.

That's where you are wrong. The cultural expectations are still very similar to 1970, but the means to achieve them have worsened considerably. Something like unable to afford housing hits men far harder than women when it comes to social aspects. Language reflects this, with words demonizing men who still live at home or living in a bad place being far more prevalent than the other way around.

Men and women work on different formulae. You can't simply say 'oh we give both the same input so the effect is the same'.

Adapt or perish or (re)shape the world. Current state where saying „kill all men“ does not raise eyebrows is a pretty sad state. Too many pseudo-feminist lunatics are tolerated.
I never saw that sentence anywhere, and seeing you quote it definitely raises my eyebrow. Are you aware that not everyone posting on the web is who they say they represent? The quotes looks more like inflammatory tactics than anything a feminist would write.
Or perhaps it’s unwise to try to deny/suppress all differences between the sexes. Yes there are some masculine behaviors one might consider “toxic”, but masculinity itself isn’t inherently toxic or something that should be eliminated.

But I guess we’ll find out in another generation or two if suicide rates continue to increase.

The other interesting thing is that „toxic femininity“ is not talked much.
Big generational change is uncommon. And on this scale it is completely unprecedented
This article quotes a bunch of statistics and then jumps to conclusions without analyzing why (some) men do worse than (most) women.

Given that most men still outearn most women and that more women attempt to commit suicide and the ongoing (predominantly female) teenage mental health crisis this whole article reads like a case study of how to lie with statistics and jump to (bad) conclusions.

Men have problems, women have problems and instead of framing it as a gender issue and arguing that either men or women have to change I think it would be more productive to zoom in and analyse why less men graduate from college or why (young) women have seen such a rapid decline in wellbeing in the past ten years.

>more women attempt to commit suicide

My understanding is women attempt suicide but more men succeed at it.

in the US. because guns.
If you are male: Learn to adequately feed yourself. Don't make that the responsibility of some woman.

There are many more things that need to happen to address these issues, but that's a place to start and it will make a difference in your life in an immediate and material fashion.

(Crickets chirp -- very loudly)

Yes, but it gets harder the more the odds get stacked against you.

The school system and university system is increasingly run by females for females.

Critical theories designed to dismantle the 'patriachy' both attack males and put in place gender quotas and limits to men.

Males are told that their very essence of being is toxic.

I really don't envy boys growing up these days and an very glad I have a daughter.

I wonder why we don't have quotas for men throughout education system. Kindergartens, schools, universities...
Make sure you teach her to reject feminism as we are teaching ours to.

Manufacturing a pseudo-marxist class war between the sexes is utterly insane.

"Suicide is now the number one cause of death among British men under forty-five" - "Hey, it would really help if you learnt to cook sophisticated meals"

I'm not sure that's the answer.

Given the amount of suffering reported in the article, its very telling how little sympathy the author has for those it reports on.

The author champions an ideology that is doing immense harm, but the author never stops to examine their beliefs.

Remember that what is bad for men is also bad for women, especially because women are innately hypergamous - wishing to marry across or up status hierarchies.

At some point a young woman will want to find a man she can respect to marry.

But the penny hasn't dropped with the author. Maybe the great achievements of feminism aren't all they are cracked up to be. How can they be? - when the world they have relentlessly demanded is making both men and women so desperately lonely and unhappy.

Are women desperately lonely and unhappy?

Teenage mental health aside (probably not caused by lack of desirable marriage partners), loneliness and desperation, and the drug abuse and suicide that follows, seem to be primarily male problems.

Maybe enough women don't want to get married, or they have another way of dealing with that not happening, but I'm not sure there's a crisis there. Granted, I don't follow surveys closely, but generally if women are affected, it will be a widely known story and the news will pick it up. It's not, so I assume they aren't.

The news hacks bear significant responsibility for many of the problems western society currently faces. They're not going to save either men or women.

The birth rate has fallen off a cliff. The rate of family formation falls lower and lower.

Older millennial women are coming to terms with the reality that they will likely never have children.

Gen Z women are still young enough to engage in extreme promiscuity via the dating apps, without yet feeling the consequences.

This isn't going to end anywhere good.

> Suicide is now the number one cause of death among British men under forty-five.

Wow.

What else do you expect them to die of?

This statistic on its own says very little. It could mean that suicide is rampant, or it could mean that we live in an incredibly safe society with very good health care.

"We find robust evidence that exposure to teacher collective bargaining laws worsens the future labor market outcomes of men: in the first 10 years after passage of a duty-to-bargain law, male earnings decline by $2,134 (or 3.93%) per year and hours worked decrease by 0.42 hours per week. The earnings estimates for men indicate that teacher collective bargaining reduces earnings by $213.8 billion in the US annually. We also find evidence of lower male employment rates, which is driven by lower labor force participation. Exposure to collective bargaining laws leads to reductions in the skill levels of the occupations into which male workers sort as well. Effects are largest among black and Hispanic men."

https://www.nber.org/papers/w24782

That question frames it in reverse. The right question is whether gender should be culturally important. And I can't think of a single reason why it's good for anyone for cultural roles to be predicated on gender. It hurts men just as much to tell them that they're not supposed to be a nurturing full-time parent as it hurts women to tell them they're not supposed to be a breadwinner.

Now, you can certainly find a few places where men and women tend to have different biological capabilities due to how the body develops during puberty. Given that both height and strength have significantly non-overlapping distributions between men and women, it's unlikely you'll see a woman in the NBA. But that doesn't need to result in a cultural expectation regarding the acceptable gender of an NBA player. It's perfectly acceptable to say "most are men, but it's cool if a woman makes it" instead of "you can't do that, you're a woman."

So as to the question asked in the article? Well, you've got to be a little careful. Men, the individual people to whom the label "man" is applied, are absolutely not culturally redundant. They can participate in culture as much or as little as they desire. But it would be nice if the label "man" stopped carrying unique cultural expectations. Although as Betteridge's law would suggest, that's sure not a description of the present state of the world.

Because it is important.

The more egalitarian countries show more differentiation across career choices than less egalitarian ones. I.e. men show a greater prefence for thing based careers and women show a greater prefence for people based careers.

If you've ever watched kids playing you'll realise how self evident it is, from a very early age before kids are remotely aware of cultural norms.

This flies in the face of all predictions that roles of sex are purely cultural.

> Given that both height and strength have significantly non-overlapping distributions between men and women, it's unlikely you'll see a woman in the NBA.

Doesn't NBA have a women's category? One would assume that you see only women there (in 1990s terms), right?

> many men are struggling to fulfill their own outmoded expectations of what a man should be

Why do we men have to be anything? Why does a woman? Can we just be ourselves and not worry about it? I never have. I've never aspired to be a masculine man's man all grr and .. go camping? Not be able to cook? Those are the traits of a couple of guys I know whose wives left them because they were fucking useless as parents and were aggressive about it. I don't feel like any less of a man because I can cook my kids a meal and would rather book a hotel.

I think the problem is constant messaging that we should be something or other and that impresses on kids. Then they feel disappointed that's not how things are for them and unmotivated to find their own path.

Occasionally I see articles like this that seem to have decent perspective and conversation, but they get flagged. What would be the reason for that? Is it just a lot of people here hitting the flag button? Is it because the article is not liked?
> “The problem with feminism, as a liberation movement, is not that it has ‘gone too far,’” Reeves writes. “It is that it has not gone far enough”—that is, it has not succeeded in replacing traditional models of masculinity with something more adequate to our current circumstances

What if the problem we’re facing is that men actually need traditional models of masculinity?

"Traditional models of masculinity" have been different traditions in different times and different places. Men cannot possibly "need" the "traditional models" of twentieth century America.

The twenty-first century is unprecedented, and everybody (men and women) will adapt to it. The individuals will adapt, and new traditions will arise based on them. They should be inspired by what we know of the past, but claims that "it was better the way things were" fails to acknowledge that things were really, really bad for women (among many others) for a very long time. They demanded change because they hated it.

> What if the problem we’re facing is that men actually need traditional models of masculinity?

I'm not sure what you mean by traditional, but it's painfully obvious to me that boys and young men need positive male role models.

Feminism offers no solution to this, and never will, since its focus lies elsewhere. Hence, we must acknowledge that as an ideology its incomplete (at best).

You can be masculine without being "toxic". They rarely, if ever, write articles about the positive aspects of masculinity.

Looking at the bit you quote, I'd say the problem is much bigger and worse than that. Have you seen any sign that the modern feminism movement either cares about such things, or is "mentally coherent" enough to devise workable models? (Vs. performative ideological and rah-rah exercises.)
“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” ― Franklin Leonard
Article mentioning suicide is the leading cause of deaths in young men in the opening paragraph.

You: probably due to their past privilege

One thing I've noticed about this line is it gets used from all sorts of groups feel like they are the ones which were oppressed / the other group is the oppressor.
This quote only works for those who experienced both sides of the change. And the problems brought up in the article is mostly about the younger generations.
I find it ironic when people say that, the quote could easily be used in the opposite direction.
Clickbait headline used to advertise book that refutes clickbait headline. Next sports.
Has culture become culturally redundant?
It should be clarified in this kind of articles that they are talking about Single men, not married men. And that those articles are a covert attempt to shame men into 'doing more' to catch up with some kind of standard that is even unspecified
> As certain structural barriers that used to hinder women have been removed, women have proven their “natural advantage” in several areas, including in our colleges and universities.

This is part of the problem. You always hear of things that supposedly women are naturally better at than men, but nobody would dare say that the opposite might be true in some aspects.

Also it's completely lacking what those "natural advantages" are are supposed to be. After all, men still make up most of graduates in MINT as opposed to women who mainly graduate in humanities, except for medicine. Looking at it that way you might as well say women are better at obediently reading and learning by heart and men are better at actually thinking and figuring things out. I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, just pointing out how the point the article makes is generally considered acceptable, while framing it differently would be considered sexist.

> Reeves presents a cocktail of public policies that include longer and more generous paid leave for new dads, a reformed child-support system that no longer makes excessive demands of mothers, and more father-friendly employment opportunities (working from home, working part-time, or working flexible hours). This would help alleviate the gender-wage gap while also promoting a healthier model of fatherhood.

As always, the solution is government-mandated social change. And why, all of a sudden, when presenting solutions, is nature completely disregarded?