Item — HN Reader

Coming? This seems like it happened already in every place I've visited. We don't even have public libraries here in Puerto Rico, but in SF, Seattle, etc. they are largely...not targeted at people looking to read/borrow books.

I'd be interested in what libraries are like in Japan since their first sale copyright doctrine is totally different from the US and most of the rest of the world.

6 comments

The library as a third place has nothing to do with enshitification. It's simply libraries meeting the needs of their users. I dont know the US numbers but many places the loan numbers of books has never been higher, while there has never been more culture and activities in the physical library. This fantasy of the library as a silent crypt for book storage is trite and tired, most often touted by non-users.

I am in the Seattle area and I disagree. King County Library system is one of the top circulating library systems in the entire country.

Maybe the Seattle Public Library (SPL) is that way, but the King County Library System (KCLS) is not. The eBook selections are great, and I never have to pay for periodicals like The Economist or The New Yorker as they have unlimited digital rentals.

[1] https://libguides.ala.org/librarystatistics/largest-public-l...

[2] https://www.courierherald.com/news/king-county-library-syste...

> I never have to pay for periodicals like ...

Presumably you and/or others in the community are paying for such subscriptions, it's just done through property taxes.

https://kcls.org/library-funding/

Yes, you are correct. What I meant is I do not need to expend any more money than I already have to read them.

Yeah, I specifically meant the SPL Central location (I lived in Redmond, but didn't know about anything except SPL itself, and the two times I visited SPL were quite unpleasant so I gave up; I did like the online resources, but they're just enough of a hassle to use vs. buying things directly that I didn't keep using them.). I want this stuff to exist, especially for children and people who are on limited budgets (I used public libraries extensively as a child; 5-10 books/week from the local/suburban library, discovered interlibrary loan, etc.), but certainly wouldn't leave even a 12 year old unattended at SPL.

I was at Seattle Central Library twice recently and the only problem I had with it was I thought the aluminum flooring was noisy in places. Other than that, it was a very pleasant visit: bright, quiet, staff were engaging.

Yes, I thought similar things. Libraries stopped being great for readers a decade+ ago. I think it’s less from nefarious corporate actors and more from the fact that reading culture has either shifted to more advanced platforms or evaporated entirely.

The readers aren't there is the main issue.

Even our local library (part of a small local 'shared independent library systems') really has to focus on kids, movies, and other media.

However, you can still get quite a bit of good stuff if you want via interlibrary loan and on DVD and CD.

As a new parent who has to watch their finances fairly closely, the children's programs at our local library is amazing. It's great to have a free activity to take our little kiddo to where they can interact with other kids. While we're there, we check out a board-book or two to take home.

It's also bringing us, the parents, back into the library again. I sometimes go to the library for a kids book, but then I check out something for myself to read. I've frankly falled out of the loop of reading fiction (and I had no idea how to find things I think I'd like), and it's been a nice way to build up a reading habit again.

I'd also been using the Libby app for audiobooks for a while, which is topical.

My library is across the street from a half-way house, and now it's just filled with methheads transitioning back to their normal scams. When I'm looking for some place to work or read and be comfortable in my surroundings, it's the last place I think of going.

It's funny I used to be in and out of homelessness and on and off bad addictions for years and I spent a lot of time in libraries. I spent a lot of effort telling myself people didn't really think things like this about me, it was just my own shame and insecurity and negativity, people don't really even think of other people that much.

Now I get to be on HN and see every day that no, my worst beliefs were true, this really is how you saw us.

Oh heck yeah, the scam artists, and petty thieves all of whom will do anything for their next fix, are unshockingly looked down upon.

What the hell, did you think people who supposed to feel sorry for the person stealing from them, stealing the hours of their life they spent earning those things?

Meanwhile Helsinki built a new central library, back in 2018.

There's a cute walkthrough video here showing some of the facilities on offer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9JZYmZTmns

It's not the main library of the city, but it is very central, and I have good memories of taking our toddler there, not to mention having hungout since then.

The wikipedia page shows some nice images, and I'm pretty sure the building has featured on hacker news in the past too!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helsinki_Central_Library_Oodi

Wow. I wonder to what degree that's designed for Helsinki residents vs. visitors (from elsewhere in Finland or beyond) -- since it's located next to a few other tourist-centric places. I'd absolutely visit when in Helsinki, especially in the winter.

> their first sale copyright doctrine is totally different from the US and most of the rest of the world

This sounds interesting but I couldn't discover what you mean in 30 seconds of googling. Explanation/source?

Not a lawyer nor even current on this, but from what I remember: In most of the world, if you sell a book or other physical media, the original manufacturer can't put meaningful restrictions on your resale of that product. This is a bit different with e-books, audiobooks, some kind of cloud software, etc., and to a great degree a lot of SAAS and software licensing as subscription vs. product is contributing to the demise of software resale. You can't resell Steam games or other stuff linked to your game; you used to have a pretty robust market for renting or second-hand selling movies on physical media, video games, etc.

There were weird games around VHS recordings of designed-for-rental being sold at $250/ea back in the 1980s, with the intended market being video rental shops charging $5/rental and doing 100 rentals to recoup their cost, before a few months/years later the prices for the movie dropped to $20-50 for individual users to buy. Video games usually were expensive up front for hot titles and cheaper later, but rental was a smaller fraction of the market -- with prerecorded video cassettes, rental was the primary market for new releases.

Japan has never (well, since 1868 and probably later -- not sure of when this originated) had this, so a product couldn't be resold. This probably lowers the initial price of some media somewhat (since the author/publisher can depend on future sales, vs. secondary market), but unclear how much of an impact it really has.

(This is all my memory from ~2000 when I ran an offshore datahaven and was at a Billboard music industry conference as they were trying to kill Napster; I assume things haven't changed that much except for the proliferation of subscription services, but it's possible laws have changed too.)

This is because the point of a library has changed a lot recently. My mom is a librarian and has talked a lot about how a lot of library engagement now is as a community space. It has internet access, you don't have to pay to be there, and can provide a lot of programs for free or reduced cost. As people are changing their habits, libraries are trying to follow them.