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In case there's anyone skimming the comments and thinking that it seems everyone else is doing all sorts of drugs... you'd be getting a skewed perception.
There are plenty of other people who are averse to drugs, so are less likely to be commenting on a post that appeals to enthusiasts.
Personally, if anyone I work with is doing drugs, I hope they'll be OK, and that it won't make them ill, stupid, or flaky.
BTW, if someone decides they have a problem with drugs, and needs help from their employer to get better, they can see which HR/labor programs apply (and how much they have to say), and whether there's a trusted manager who will help support. Like in other facets of work, I'd much rather someone said they needed help with something early, rather than the problem becoming apparent later.
Be well.
> thinking that it seems everyone else is doing all sorts of drugs... you'd be getting a skewed perception.
I’ve had a few friends and acquaintances fall into problematic drug use.
The common theme among all of their situations was that they moved into social circles with a lot of drug users. When everyone around you is doing a lot of drugs it’s easy to start thinking that everyone in the world must be doing a lot of drugs. After all, that’s what you see all around you and what everyone you know is talking about.
This creates a second layer of hazard where the recovered people or even moderate users self-select out of the social circle while the social group starts accumulating up even heavier drugs users from people’s friends-of-friends who so drugs together. As this compounds, it becomes easy for people in the group to think that their own drug use is low because it’s not as bad as so-and-so, or they haven’t overdosed or developed major health problems (yet) like the guy in the friend group who is a complete wreck. They start losing touch with reality because the “normal” they surround themselves with is anything but.
I don’t think the average HN drug use commenter is at that stage, obviously, but I do pick up hints of this dynamic in a lot of comments. The way some people post “everyone’s doing it” type reasoning without a second thought is kind of weird to see, not to mention contradictory to actual statistics. It’s more telling about the commenter’s social circle and how entrenched they are in their bubble. If you really think everyone is consuming drugs frequently or that semi-frequent (yearly or more often) psychedelic use is “common” then you’re likely in a bubble.
> The common theme among all of their situations was that they moved into social circles with a lot of drug users.
Or maybe they moved into those social circles because they had a developing drug problem. The reasons why people use drugs is very complex. I used a lot of drugs when I was younger (< 18), and I lost many friends to drugs. Not that my experience translates particularly well to adult drug use, but there were definitely some common themes to why teenagers I knew started using drugs:
1. They were sociopaths. This was a big category of users. They just didn't care and wanted to do whatever felt good.
2. Endured some type of abuse at home.
3. This isn't a reason, but rather a correlation, but many drug users I knew came from divorced households, myself included.
There were other reasons, but those were the three broad categories I noticed.
It's like we're in the Matrix.
And the Matrix is a little island in the middle of a big ocean.
Tripping, meditating, dreaming and a hundred other methods will get you into the ocean. Show it to you, splash around the shoreline, go for a swim, meet the people who live there...
I've tripped some. Psilocybin is my favorite psychedelic substance.
My favorite method is Vipassana meditation.
(Also, is it just me or is the psychedelic culture markedly saner than the meditation culture?)
For having dabbed into both, I’m not sure psychedelic culture is better. The promises of psychedelics are higher and in my case the hopes were higher too, so it took me longer to acknowledge the issues with that culture. But many prominent people lie about their respect for science, and in the end I doubt there are fundamental differences with the field of meditation.
Not better, saner. By saner I mean they seem to be more organized and grounded.
I mean look at Erowid. Here's the method : here's the report. We have some pudding, we have some proof. Straightforward as heck.
Whereas the meditation scene seems to be full of grifters, dogmatists and hand-wavers.
The psychedelic culture has a substance in hand. If the substance is bunk then that becomes apparent pretty quick. Solid evidence. Good science.
Whereas the meditation scene has a thousand methods and if it doesn't work for you... well.. maybe you are doing it wrong, or maybe you need to try another app subscription...
(not to say that there aren't some very straightforward meditation techniques that pay off quick.)
Seems we enjoy similar things :)
My last psilocybin trip taught me how to sleep better by showing how I should focus on my body sensations when I feel restless. I should tense and stretch, that's what I noticed during my trip.
Disclaimer: I took them in Amsterdam, truffles are decriminalized there.
I do metta. I'm still wondering if meditation makes you a gullible crystal buying idiot, or does it just attract such people.
> I'm still wondering if meditation makes you a gullible crystal buying idiot, or does it just attract such people.
Maybe both?
It makes some:
It can be genuinely destabilizing to realize that e.g., the mind creates its emotional reality and it can hack that reality.[1] It's less destabilizing if you put that responsibility on some external fetish item – crystals, a guru, a retreat, an app.
It attracts some:
A lot of people are looking for an easy way to socially signal that they're good and unique. Meditation accoutrements fit the bill. See "Zen home and garden deco ideas" and "Can anyone identify this [Buddhist thing I just bought]?" posts on some popular Buddhist forums.
[1] https://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_feldman_barrett_you_aren_t_at...
Well it's a pretty good story surrounding meditation : what mediation can do for you, the philosophies about it, sounds kinda like magic, etc.
Which would attract story-lovers. And might lead them to approach it from the story-end first (rather than seeking some more solid to work with). Which could be a problem.
I see people giving prescriptions in this comment section. I am but a humble seeker. I can not claim to give anyone access to the best knowledge, or even lasting knowledge. Neither, I believe, can any of our fellow commenter. Anyone saying "you must integrate these lessons," or "ignore all else and read these books," are not wrong. They are giving advice that, to them, sounds good and wholesome. Perhaps they are.
However, I would push back against such dogma (and it is dogma even if it is only propagated by a single individual). Here are some of my own personal lessons from my psychedelic explorations:
Do what you are curious about, no more and no less.
Listen to the advice of your peers. Take it as freely as they give it. Yet, if you find no sense in it, also know you are not bound by it.
Be curious. Explore and research the things you do to your body, to the best of your ability, before you do them.
Keep an open mind and an open heart.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be kind to yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here. (Max Ehrmann, Desiderata)
Finally, I believe my best approach to the psychedelic experience is to treat it as a new aspect of philosophy. To me, it is about the art of living well with myself.
I love all you people. Be safe and be kind.
Agreed, I didn't mean to trivialize DMT, I shoulda prefaced it by saying I tripped last night, 75mg vaporized, and managed a 16 minute torrent of geometry without ego death, which was unique (stim/dizzos).
Really, it may be the best choice for _readers here_, given it's short length, penultimate intensity, less (statistically) common cases of HPPD, and massive perspective change. That is, after all, how it has earned its informal title as the "business mans trip,"
Regarding the chances of HPPD, I have seen far more people (even adjusted for LSDs and DMT rarity relatively) blame acid for their mental discontinuity then DMT.
LSD makes you feel like you had an eureka moment; DMT makes you think you had it then forgot it, as it's nature. Shrooms....are a dice roll, especially comparivitly
Do you have a blog?
People should be allowed to take whatever substances they want, as long as they stay away from my neighborhood. I’ve moved as far away from drug users as I could and it was the best decision to increase my productivity, lower my stress, and increase my physical safety I’ve ever made.
> I’ve moved as far away from drug users as I could and it was the best decision to increase my productivity, lower my stress, and increase my physical safety I’ve ever made.
i'm honestly unaware of places without drug users, so honest question : did you move away from drug users, or did you move away from users of a specific drug?
The only way I can fathom that someone may be truly away from drug users is that they're also totally away from populations of any kind.
Antarctica comes to mind, but i'd probably be surprised.
Which group of "drug users" must stay away from your neighborhood: recreational pot smokers, or those taking doctor prescribed opiods and adderall?
If you find this topic interesting ignore everything in the above post and get yourself a copy of:
Plants of the Gods: Their Sacred, Healing, and Hallucinogenic Powers by Richard Evans Schultes (Author), Albert Hofmann (Author), Christian Rätsch (Author)
Couple of additional great reads around the subject:
The Doors of Perception - Aldous Huxley
Food of the Gods - Terrence McKenna.
And honestly reading Erowid trip report is super interesting/fun (especially DMT! Heh).
For the ones who might not know, Albert Hofmann discovered LSD
I have searched for an EPUB copy and unfortunately I can only get
Richard Evan's "Where the Gods Reign: Plants and Peoples of the Colombian"
Do they cover datura?
There's a fairly popular onion domain called Psychonaughts wiki that delves into a lot of drugs and their effects, history, etc. Interesting read for sure.
Dark Fail has the most current link since it changes so frequently.
Erowid is also a great ressource to when using psychoactive drugs.
There is also something like this accessible on the light web: https://m.psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
Maybe it’s just because I have moved to the West coast but it seems we are in a localized upswing of exploration of psychedelics.
It’s not localised and it’s not new either tbh.
That said, I do think there’s certainly been renewed interest since the pandemic in some of the classical psychedelics like mushrooms, etc. Certainly a lot more people asking around for good picking spots the last couple of seasons here.
It’s definitely localized. most societies don’t look favorable on drug use including most of east Asia, south and south east Asia, Middle East, and more.
From where I’m sitting it doesn’t appear to be localised.
I recall Terrence McKenna (everyone's favorite historical psychonaut) saying "It's hard to do psychedelics". I agree with him. These things are dangerous when the set and setting is wrong, or if they're done at an off-kilter phase of your life, or that you simply over-indulge in them.
I appreciate the mini renaissance period they're having these days, but these things need plenty of research before trying them. They're not something you do for a giddy high, they're tools. One thing people need to do is integrate the various lessons they've gained from tripping into their daily lives.
All too often, trips are like dreams, they fade and we suffer amnesia after trying them. It's crucial to take notes and integrate the ideas you've gained, otherwise you've wasted the trip(s) IMHO.
As someone who almost always tries to "use" substances in this way, I think it's also perfectly fine to do it just "to have fun", party or whatever.
The experience itself is not to be disdained and not every trip has to be like this.
I wonder if there exists a framework for integration that follows a rational approach. Psychology in general is a field full of esoteric and hardly scientific approaches. What I found about its psychedelic subfield is even worse. Behind a facade of science, it’s still very much New Age stuff. I had a psychedelic experience in a group setting with people that are supposedly experienced and knowledgeable about the science. It was actually worse than when I tripped alone and integration has been hard.
Does anyone know of a rational technique or theory to do the integration work?
This sounds like the usual covert anti-drugs post that comes up every time, with sloppy claims and a total absence of facts.
> or that you simply over-indulge in them
duh. What isn't dangerous if you're stupid.
> They're not something you do for a giddy high
Weasel words 'giddy'. And I do use them precisely for a high.
> One thing people need to do is integrate the various lessons they've gained from tripping into their daily lives.
what does this mean and how do i do it? (serious question)
> All too often, trips are like dreams, they fade and we suffer amnesia after trying them
who is 'we' here, the entire user-base? And I've never heard of this effect, ever.
I did a bunch of psychedelics when I was in my 20s, and the further I get away from it, the more ridiculous the pretentious pseudo-mystical crap people spout about it gets to me. There is a lot to learn from and LSD trip, but it's not magic, you're not seeing other worlds, it's not a goddess or an alien from another dimension.
Your mind is a network of neurons, psychedelics make those neurons fire in unusual ways, that's it. What you should be learning from it is that your _ordinary perceptions of the world_ are nothing but a very convincing illusion created by your mind, and that you should not entirely trust what you believe you are seeing and hearing and feeling, because in a very real sense -- _none of it is real_. What you should _not_ be taking away from it is that anything you see or feel or think during a trip is the _true_ reality, any more than your ordinary waking life is.
Walk away skeptical, walk away confused, don't walk away from it thinking you've discovered the meaning of life. Everyone you know that doesn't do drugs will think you're being silly, because you are.
The biggest issue is to ensure you have good mental health/life situations...
There have been times I've been super depressed and people recommend mushrooms, which I've done my fair share when I was younger and didn't do mushrooms for almost 25 years...
I wanted to do some but I was too depressed, and while it was recommended for depression, I know my relationship with mushrooms, and I know when I am not in a place to do them.
They need to be taken with an open happy heart, or focus and desire for such. They are no good if you're going to dwell on the negative aspects of your path - take the negative from an objective observation, and heal.
California bill SB 58 just passed out of the “suspense file,” and actually has a path to pass.
Summary An act to amend Sections 11054, 11350, 11364, 11364.7, 11365, 11377, 11379, 11382, and 11550 of, to add Sections 11350.1 and 11377.1 to, to add and repeal Section 11214 of, to repeal Section 11999 of, and to repeal Article 7 (commencing with Section 11390) of Chapter 6 of Division 10 of, the Health and Safety Code, relating to controlled substances.
Would move forward access to a subset of these substances in California.
Full text of latest version here: https://legiscan.com/CA/text/SB58/2023
I am personally strongly in favor of this bill, and more broadly decriminalizing a wider variety of drugs, and focusing more resources on research, medical uses, addiction prevention, treatment and prosecuting related secondary crimes like robbery etc…
I do worry about folks who perhaps have experienced the legal weed phenomenon stepping up to DMT or large mushroom doses and not being prepared. I know this is just decriminalizing, but access follows. Ultimately I believe it is the individual choice and the benefits outweigh the damages, but I am not certain how it all plays out when the real numbers are in.
> I know this is just decriminalizing, but access follows.
I just want affordable, trustworthy, fast, and legal quantitative testing so that people actually know what they're taking.
DMT only lasts 10-15 minutes, and will be so overpowering, glorious, and delightful, that one can only compare it to losing one's virginity, or being born again.
Mushrooms and LSD are way too longer/overrated and I fear those who haven't further explored the latent chemical/consciousness space misrepresent the dimension that, quite frankly, BETTER chemicals have to offer.
Dont do shrooms, 4acoDMT is far superior.
Dont do acid( edit: alone for the first time), at least not without taking a xanax (edit: read: or being in a well-intended state of mind) first.
DMT will sidestep all that.
iykyk, yk?
Don't take xanax before the trip; and if you are really so inclined, just have the proper dosage ready nearby. The trick is /knowing/ that you can stop it. But treat it as a last resort.
If you let go, the fear will melt away on its own. If it does, you'll find a level of peace and clarity. If it doesn't, even a bad trip can teach you something, if you step outside your mind and observe it like a scientist of yourself. This is part of gaining experience. This is part of the point of taking a psychedelic in the first place. If you chemically alter the fear away, you will never learn this. Start with a small dose, in a peaceful setting, with someone you trust who has done it before, do not re-dose during your first trip.
Take shrooms or acid if you want to. They are serious drugs but akin to a lucid dream, if you believe in the adverse effects then they will hold more weight on your psyche. In this sense OP's comments are doing a massive disservice.
Go to erowid and study up from there, instead of taking OP's obviously projected advice.
(Also, in another comment, OP writes that it is impossible to OD on benzos alone, which is false. Judge the quality of the information for yourself.)
Please don't recommend people take Xanax recreationally. Benzodiazepines are fraught with danger. It is not something to take lightly. Your experiences are not universalizable. I appreciate your insight, and I'm glad you've found substances you enjoy. But please refrain from engaging in drug exceptionalism. The first and foremost consideration of engaging in a substance ought to be harm reduction. This is not one of those "iykyk, yk" situations, in my humble opinion.
Also, fun aside: DMT may have interesting anabolic effects. I quite enjoy vaping DMT while working out. It helps me engage my muscles and mind more fully, and safely, in bodyweight non-ballistic exercises.
I hope you have a wonderful day, fellow seeker.
I don't like this post. As a user of drugs when I can get hold of them (and strongly inclined to their legalisation), describing something as "overpowering, glorious, and delightful" dangerously misrepresent each person's own experience. Descriptions like this are bad advertising at best and at worst dangerously irresponsible.
I also don't like your personal recommendation of DMT over mushrooms. You're not in a position to recommend anything based on your personal experience alone, especially when it relates to serious legal aspects of non-legal drugs.
Finally, I don't like your recommendation of mixing drugs (Xanax and acid). For all I know that could lead to a serious interaction.
I don't like this post at all.
4-aco-Dmt and shrooms are both pro drugs of psilocin so they’re functionally the same molecule
DMT can be life changing to many people, me being one of them, but it’s also extremely powerful, scary, and not always a positively life changing experience
EDIT: I misinterpreted what you meant by the 4-aco-Dmt comment. I actually agree that it’s better than actual mushrooms, especially for beginners
2C-B is another less overwhelming option for beginners
eh, this post is seriously misguided. the experience on DMT is relative; you might feel like you have been gone for days or months even if the clock tells you 15 min have gone by. furthermore, the power of DMT, with its sudden onset, can feel quite violent, literally like a drive-by shooting, or beamed up a la Star Trek.
curious people, please look into the concept of "pharmakon"; the knowledge gained from drug usage often does not come without a reciprocal cost, and the sense of elevated consciousness can be fraught with illusion and the same old tricks of the ego.
I have had many life changing experiences under the influence of drugs (one of the most powerful, under the influence of DMT), but in my opinion it extremely misguided to recommend it wholeheartedly to people without a very strong disclaimer regarding its adverse effects.
When I used DMT properly, for the first and last time, I experienced temporary ego-death. Afterwards I re-lived "my trip" every single night for almost a year, having the same dream, over and over again. In my waking hours I would sometimes find myself fusing with my environment (real-time temporal loss of self) "at one with everything".
Undergoing this process helped me "find myself", but the experience was dangerously close to full-blown psychosis - tl;dr drugs are a powerful and useful substance, be aware of the risks before taking, and do not recommend to others; DYOR and decide for yourself.
Mushrooms are incredibly varied, and I feel you just have not experienced good/strong mushrooms. I had trips which were indistinguishable from dmt.
I would only recommend shrooms for the beginner.
LSD is way too intense for the casual and DMT imo is scary even if it is short.