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I wonder if SQL will be able to catch up to C#. Maybe they’ll add the English language next year so I can see how popular it is compared to Javascript.
Will never happen as long as the SQL team refuses to add pattern matching.
Pig Latin should be counted, as it is an algorithmically altered language, which makes it comparable to a programming language

And JSON, since it looks like programming spaghetti.

Most SQL dialects are full blown languages, so it isn't like what happens with HTML and CSS, regardless of the sarcasm.
What does "add the English language" mean??
I am interested in reading more about their methodology. They seek to rank by “popularity” but thats a very fuzzy term. I expected to see Javascript #1 based on how common it is. Which owes itself to being the only option (outside of the WASM niche) for front end web development, in addition to being fairly general purpose (node, electron, mobile). So im surprised to see it at #5 and less than half the score of python.

For example, search Indeed for software engineer jobs and filter by programming languages. Last I checked JavaScript had far and away the most results. And it becomes clear why - basically any web development position requires it. Python + JS, C# + JS, Ruby + JS, JS (node, ts, etc) + JS, etc.

Again, it depends on how you define “popular.”

It's linked here: https://spectrum.ieee.org/top-programming-languages-methodol...

Essentially, it's a weighted metric of:

* Number of google search results for "X programming language" (w/ quotes)

* Number of questions asked about the language last month in StackOverflow

* Number of academic publications that mentioned "X programming" last year

* Number of job postings (on two different sites)

* Github repository counts (based on stars or recent PRs)

* Number of books published last year about said programming language

* Number of discords tagged with said programming language

Likewise how does Visual Basic have more jobs than Swift.

I suspect they are looking for keywords in job titles and missing the fact that iOS development = Swift just as Web development = Javascript.

TIL that Prolog is only slightly less popular than ABAP. I mean I'm a big big Prolog fan, but as a niche language for constraint solving and similar stuff; there's no way that Prolog is used as much as ABAP (SAP's language), so usage can't be the criterion for popularity here indeed.
Job postings is even an inaccurate way to measure. Often companies like Amazon will have one posting and hire K people- everyone who passed the bar- and all of them will be programming in Java, typically.
If you add the JS and TS values together, it would immediately overtake Java for the #2 spot.
> Veteran languages can also turn up in places you might not expect. Ladder Logic, created for industrial-control applications, is often associated with old-fashioned tech.

Ladder logic is not "old fashioned tech." It is by far the most commonly used language in American manufacturing. Nothing beats it for allowing the onsite techs to easily debug the machine at 2am.

I came to say the same thing!

There is a hidden economy of programmers who often don't realize they're programmers. They're hidden inside every industrial facility, maintaining machines that use ladder logic to control their functionality in PLCs. And the ones I've met are generally brilliant at it.

I was watching as one such person modify the program running a machine. "How do you deploy the change?" I asked. "Deploy? No, this is live. Every change I make is happening immediately."

Java is king. Take away all the AI batch stuff and Python would shrink more. Putting python in production for online applications has many issues (trust me, I know). Java is very robust, performs well, tons of mindshare, pretty good frameworks (Spring Boot, Quarkus), and very good IDE support.
Java has:

- A decent type system, which makes it better than Python, JavaScript, R

- Runtime errors with good stack traces instead of UB for things like invalid casts or null dereference, which makes it better than C++

- Automatic memory management without complex borrowing rules, which makes it (arguably, for some situations) better than Rust

- The JVM targets many different platforms and Java programs often “just work”, which makes it better than Swift

- Decent abstraction, which makes it better than Go

- Large ecosystem, which makes it better than Dart or Nim or Zig

- C#? I’m not sure, C# is a lot like Java. IMO what Java has which is better than C# is Kotlin and better JetBrains support

Now Java isn’t perfect. In fact I prefer Kotlin (always), Rust (despite the increased difficulty), and Swift (if the platform allows) as general-purpose languages. But unlike those, Java is one of the ancient big languages everyone knows about, and compared to the others (JavaScript, Python, C++) it’s the best general-purpose language by far.

> Take away all the AI batch stuff and Python would shrink more.

Odd statement. Take away spring boot and Java would shrink more.

> Take away all the AI batch stuff and Python would shrink more.

Isn’t that a but like saying “Take away all that enterprise stuff and Java would shrink more?”

Oracle owns Java which cancels any pros of that language.
the jvm is a powerful platform. but java itself sucks. yeah massive ecosystem. library for everything.

but if thre's one thing that embodies complexity for the sake of complexity its java.

java is also pragmatic. you're less likely to lose hair using java than python.

but java sucks -- you've a lot of "come-from" statements that you can't easily grasp the code. maybe it's me just being a dumb mofo

Kotlins been magical for working w/ too!
The subheading: Python and SQL are on top, but old languages shouldn’t be forgotten.

I'm old, and so are Python and SQL.

SQL is old (was popular before I started programming). Python is new (I remember when it became popular).

SQL is also the second oldest language in top the 20, after C. Hell, the only languages older than SQL on that list overall are C, Fortran, Lisp and Assembly

Wow, J is up there in the top 50!

And under jobs, J is 0.02 vs. Rust's 0.0162. I have a better chance of getting a J job? Cool.

Top "programming" languages should not include SQL. No one uses it to do programming, we use it to read/write to a data store. If it's included, Excel/google-sheet should be included ahead of it and would be the #1 programming language. Typescript is a programming language, but should be grouped with JS in lists like this.
> No one uses it to do programming

Not at all true.

> we use it to read/write to a data store.

Reading and writing a datastore is programming, but, no, that’s not the only thing SQL (including its standard, and various proprietary, procedural modules/extensions) are used for.

Ha! That might be the way you use it. I suspect the majority of our business logic is implemented in SQL.
TL;DR:

Top 15 PL are Python, Java, C++, C, Javascript, C#, SQL, Go, Typescript, HTML, R, Shell, PHP, Ruby and SAS.

Python doesn’t just remain No. 1 but it has managed to widens its lead in 2023 at the expense of smaller, more specialized languages. It has become the jack-of-all-trades language and has found its niche in AI, where powerful and extensive libraries make it very popular.

For PL job ranking, SQL is No. 1 skill but to get proper jobs it must come with Java or C++ skill.

Java and the various C-like languages, however outweigh Python in their combined popularity for high-performance or resource-sensitive tasks where Python is slow.

Very specialized languages like R and Fortran are still very popular perhaps due to their hard to replace reputation in legacy systems.

Python and SQL work great together (especially with SQLite that is build into Python).

So it’s not one or the other.

I have thought ML Phd students that mostly used Pandas in Python about SQL, and they where a surprised about the similarities (and the additional power with combining them)

> SAS

Now that is a name I haven't heard in a long time. Long long time.

This doesn’t pass my smell test. Ok, python is taught in colleges and widely used for data science. Fine.

Java… yeah, lots of legacy code and large corps. Fine.

But C++? I can see why C might be up there due to the embedded world, but is C++ really more popular than JavaScript? I’d expect JS to be at the top of the list, and meanwhile it’s only about twice as high as GO? I like Golang, but ask ten software engineers and maybe one has used it, whereas it’s unlikely you haven’t used at least some JS.

My gut tells me that this list isn’t very meaningful.

Just imagine that there's a whole world of software development out there that doesn't involve web browsers.

You've just imagined reality.

> But C++? I can see why C might be up there due to the embedded world, but is C++ really more popular than JavaScript?

If it's anything like tiobe, they give bonuses for vendor offerings, which gives languages like c/c++/fortran legs up for most domains that aren't web development. Robotics, embedded, scientific computing, etc.

Or at least I've never seen a js vendor offering that wasn't for web development.

> our general “Spectrum” ranking—which is weighted to reflect the interests of the typical IEEE member

I guess this is because the typical IEEE member is a scientist, not a web developer.

There are more than 5 million C++ developers out there. The world runs on C++ (and C) software.
> it’s unlikely you haven’t used at least some JS

Sure, but it all boils down to what exactly is ranked right? "Percentage of programmers that has used at least some of this programming language." is probably not a criterium.

Wow, Dart is beating Rust. That surprised me quite a bit
Over a million flutter apps are on the playstore, a 100% YoY increase.

https://docs.flutter.dev/resources/faq#should-i-build-my-nex...

Once WASM GC comes in all mainstream browsers, I fear flutter/dart will eat the web.
Which category is supposed to relate to their previous reports? They used to have 4 languages (C, C++, C#, Java) between 50 and 99, now there are none. It appears their algorithm has changed. They mention change in the article but all the change appears to have happened in the past two years. They describe Trending as zeitgeist but what does that mean?
Seems strange it thinks Julia is more popular than Elixir. Or that Perl has more jobs than PHP or Ruby.
With this kind or ranking, there is a ton of noise so the top few likely correctly reflect the methodology but the ordering of the lower ones is meaningless.
Those numbers are quite interesting and a good wake up call for all those mentions how relevant Kotlin happens to be on the JVM space, across all three criterias.
How are they measuring that Java is trending?
Is SQL touring complete? If not, it belongs on a different bucket.
Can someone explain why Java is so popular?
…Is SQL a programming language?

  Definitely completely clear that nobody would start any major projects in C++.
Looks like it is way more likely to get a job if you know fortran or cobol than delphi.
> Python’s increased dominance appears to be largely at the expense of smaller, more specialized, languages. It has become the jack-of-all-trades language—and the master of some, such as AI, where powerful and extensive libraries make it ubiquitous.

Python being described as a jack-of-all-trades and master of some is a really succinct way of explaining it's dominance. One of my kids is about old enough to start learning to program. At this point, I can't see a reason to teach her anything but Python.