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> The [galvanized corrugated steel] sheets don’t just have value; they are value. With two sheets you can buy a goat, with twenty an Ankole cow.
Giordano Bruno said that whatever has the most value and the least cost of storage becomes money. This seems like an example? Amusingly, the "coins" store themselves as they are literally the roofs protecting other valuables-- and people! --from the elements.
Apparently a fact you like repeating ;-) <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...>
Would you happen to know where Bruno said this, as it doesn't seem any of your earlier comments gives this vital detail, and I'm not finding any likely references elsewhere?
A definition I find useful (though not entirely accurate) is from William Stanley Jevons who identified a properties of money as:
1. utility and value
2. portability
3. indestructability
4. homogeneity
5. divisibility
6. stability of value, and
7. cognisability
William Stanley Jevons, Money and the Mechanism of Exchange Chapter 5: <https://archive.org/details/cu31924013816172>
Points 1, 2, & 3 afford low cost of storage.
Of those, I differ with him on utility and value, as we have fiat currencies and accounts notations of no intrinsic value themselves, rather utility and value are the inverse of trust in the money-issuing authority. "Seignorage" in specie is then a measure of trust, and fiat currency effectively has infinite trust.
My own view is that money is that commodity which has the most universal appeal, that is, it's what is wanted more than any other commodity. That might be a domestic government-issued coin or currency, but often has been something else: currency of some other government (as in Ecuador, El Salvador, Zimbabwe, British Virgin Islands, and Bonaire, the last being a Dutch territory), or physical commodity such as cigarettes, cowhide, beaver pelt, grain, shells, silk, etc.
In high-trust societies, debt and credit substitute for physical tokens.
Thanks.
> Apparently a fact you like repeating ;-)
Yeah, I really find it interesting. It's so modern, almost like something from cybernetics. It reminds me of how Gurdjieff said that the "atom" of a phenomenon was the smallest amount of it that evinces all of its qualities.
It only took seven years to get a thoughtful reply. Cheers! :)
> Would you happen to know where Bruno said this
I originally read it in one of Robert Anton Wilson's books (or possible a foreword he wrote for some other book that he didn't write, which probably isn't helpful.) I have no idea where he got it.
Certainly money in practice and theory has become much more complex than it was five hundred years ago when he (might have) said it.
I should tell you that when it comes to economics I'm basically a troglodyte. I feel higher economics is actually a form of numerology. I won't be offended if you decline to discuss it further with me. :)
i think that that needs an addendum along the lines of "as long as it's not necessary and/or consumable", otherwise you have to decide between using it as a medium of exchange and just using it.
even in this case, the only way you could really "spend" the sheets is by removing the roof and walls of your house, so until you have some extra, unneeded ones, they aren't really money. they're more a store of value; an analogue might be buying artwork that you know you could sell later if you needed the money.
"I declare the Mountain besieged. [...]
We will bear no weapons against you, but we leave you to your gold.
You may eat that, if you will!"
Path of Exile has a deep economy based around consumable crafting items
https://poe.ninja https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Economy
Also makes sense why gold is used traditionally as a storage of value, it doesn't tarnish or rust away with age
“Rust: The Longest War” is a really good book I once read regarding this topic. Highly recommend checking it out for further reading… https://books.google.com/books/about/Rust.html?id=sEHqBgAAQB...
When I was a kid, my dad drove a 15-year-old Volkswagen Beetle that was more rust than metal in a lot of places. The floor under the pedals was completely rusted through and my dad claimed that he sometimes had to start the car by putting it in gear and running with it Fred Flinstone–style. I do remember that there was one underpass on the way to the YMCA which regularly would get a few inches of standing water after a rain storm and when he would drive us to swim lessons, we could count on getting splashed.
I have a 23 year old VW Passat. It's rust-free, but the clearcoat had rotted through, so for the fun of it I repainted the car with $150 of Rustoleum with a roller ("Hunter Green" from Home Depot- it should be sprayed, but I don't have a good place to do it and I'm not willing to pay). It looks good, but like a car that has been painted with a roller :-)
What's interesting is that I also have a 13 year old VW CC. This car has major rust problems, it's as if VW forgot the recipe. I think it's partially a water drainage problem since most of the rust is between the door seals.
But yeah, classic Beetles all seem to have the rusted floor pans. I think newer cars coat the floor with bitumen or something, or just have better drainage.
Be careful, rusting cars are often structurally unsound. It's fine if the shell is rusted, but you don't want too much rust (beyond general surface corrosion) on the skateboard.
Well, given that he gave up that car in 1975, and no longer drives, I think we’re ok.
The concept of this website is interesting as heck.
> Books in Progress is what we call a “public drafting tool”: Drafts will be made available for comment from the public, allowing for direct collaboration between author and reader.
> As a reader, you can comment on a passage from the text, or respond to another comment. The author will accept or dismiss these comments. Once the author implements comments, a new draft will be created and the current one archived. Helpful commenters will be thanked in print at the author’s discretion.
this side note leapt out at me
8<--------------------------------------------
The ongoing maintenance budget for the statue these days, I’m told, is about $6 million a year—$5 million for managing public access, $1 million for physical maintenance. And any year the $1 million is not entirely spent, the remainder is banked so that the fund will become sufficient over time to pay for a major overhaul.
8<--------------------------------------------
what a refreshing change from the whole "use it or lose it" mentality!
Shows it can be done, huh?
Shows that when it’s not done it’s not done by choice.
Shows that when it is done, it’s done to support the most iconic marketing tool of american hegemony and imperialism cosplaying as a symbol of “freedom.”
While the article mentions stainless, it doesn’t really give it enough credit.
Lots of words describing the failures of the Statue of Liberty, but no words describing how the Gateway Arch in St. Louis and the top of the Chrysler building (both stainless) have persisted for decades with absolutely zero corrosion. My understanding is that this has vastly exceeded the expectations of the initial engineers.
Stainless steel artifacts made today will still be around in a million years if they aren’t intentionally destroyed.
You're OVERstating the power of stainless. It's stain less, not unable to be stained. Stainless steels absolutely can corrode.
>> [...] Stainless steel artifacts made today will still be around in a million years if they aren’t intentionally destroyed.
> [...] Stainless steels absolutely can corrode.
yes, but according to the article, only in contact with certain chemicals and metals. So some items will remain for a long time (albeit not all)
Very nicely written article.
One thing about rust, salt and moisture: salts deliquescence. I.e. they absorb moisture from air until there is enough liquid to dissolve themselves in. This happens below 100% relative humidity (around 75% for common salt, but as little as 31% for cacl2). So salt-contaminated surfaces can easily get wet even when the air is not that humid, bad news for steel!
...so we should be washing off salt from our cars when they treat the roads for snow?
Or does the new chemical they're using not have the same problem?
> so we should be washing off salt from our cars when they treat the roads for snow?
Kinda depends on how long you're gonna keep the car
If you have ever driven old cars in the Midwest, terrifying amounts of rust from road salt is definitely a Thing. Or at least it used to be decades ago, I assume it still is now.
Washing the salt off will reduce rate of corrosion. Probably the most important to wash is the underneath. I suppose it is more important for cars that do not do that many miles/year as in this case the internal parts will last a long time.
This article is apt for me. I just had to battle some rust on a cross member under my car. It has some rust that I removed with a wire wheel, sanding a rust converted. I primed it and painted it and how waiting to install it. I guess I should expect to be doing this dance every 5 years give I live in the North East.
I should have probably gotten the thing powder coated and call it a day(or life time)
I've just taken to applying Cosmoline to the underside of my truck each summer.
I don’t understand why your comment did so badly, I found it interesting.
Does it cost much? I live next to the ocean and had just accepted that rust was part of my life now.
Absolutely! I just bought some of this stuff and plan on applying it to the to under body of the car itself also.
Used oil apparently also makes good undercoating.
I was happy to see this article. I was thinking about sacrificial anodes (cathodic protection) today for my outdoor furniture.
I do enjoy a good Neil Young pun
Dang that was a long read
Great article. Cross roads between old, daily life, technical.
Struggled a bit to find this, but here’s a link to the other chapters already written: https://books.worksinprogress.co/
Does anyone know if there’s an RSS feed?
We send out notifications via our Substack here https://www.worksinprogress.news/
Would love some targeted RSS feeds if possible! Especially for the books
[stub for offtopicness]
I swear, I thought clicking on this, I was going to read about a CI/CD system built for Rust in Rust...
Corrosion is actually a great name for a Rust tool. I expect someone to steal that soon
Yeah, anything with Rust in the title makes it to the front page, so expect anyone writing on icy weather conditions to post it to HN for the extra clicks.
It's seems like nature is rewriting it in Rust all the time .
I love the metal-related naming of Rust's environment. Quite charming.
The weird thing about being an uber geek: You see this headline and assume the article is about a popular programming language!
They should probably change the name of the compound to prevent confusion.
And we have a project named Corrosion: https://github.com/corrosion-rs/corrosion
A true uber geek would see Corrosion and Rust and think its an article about Oxidation, because it makes sense.
"We want to make rust just go away, and it just won’t. So we negotiate."
Poetic words. Not to be taken out of context, of course.