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Consider using GrapheneOS instead of stock Android for an improved version of MTE (and extra security and privacy as a bonus): https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/8439-mte-support-status-for...

> Stock Pixel OS has it as a developer option which isn't usable in practice since it breaks far too much. The implementation is also much less powerful than hardened_malloc.

> We integrated it into hardened_malloc where it's able to provide stronger security properties than the experimental stock OS implementation.

> When fully integrated into the compiler and each heap allocator, MTE enforces a form of memory safety. It detects memory corruption as it happens. 4 bit tags limit it to probabilistic detection for the general case, but deterministic guarantees are possible via reserving tags. In hardened_malloc, we deterministically prevent sequential overflows by excluding adjacent tags.

Also, currently it's not clear if it makes sense to enable kernel MTE:

> MTE support for protecting the Linux kernel isn't enabled yet, but we can likely enable that by default too. However, it's currently part of kasan and is more oriented towards debugging than hardening. It's not entirely clear that enabling it in the current state is a good idea.

3 comments

Writing this from a Pixel running GrapheneOS. I've been away from Graphene (using Lineage) since the CopperheadOS days. Coming back I can safely say I will be buying Pixels as long as GrapheneOS is around. The robustness a finish is just amazing.

To anyone using a Pixel: install and donate (if you can)!

The web installer[1] is basically a few clicks on a web page. So damned impressed.

[1] https://grapheneos.org/install/web

Do you lose the whole play store? Does it even make sense if I use gmail? I like the idea at least. And my 4a isn't getting updates now(on graphene either apparently) which is a shame because I still like it. I used to ise lineage on Samsung devices.

One of GrapheneOS's absolute best features is the sandboxed Google Play Services.

Basically, where other privacy AOSP forks typically offer up to three choices...

- no Google at all

- root and install an extremely fragile FOSS alternative GPS implementation (MicroG)

- root and install the full Google Play Services binary blobs

... GrapheneOS offers option #4: you can install Google Play Services in a sandbox so that they still run, but they don't get root-level access to your system, instead they are treated the same as any other app (so e.g. you get to manage their access to location/storage/contacts etc.).

Note that you don't have to, it's just an option in the built-in Apps menu. I personally run GrapheneOS with no GPS at all in my main profile, and occasionally access my old Gmail/Gdrive accounts via web browser.

One of the things that Graphene doesn't support is Android Auto -- They have stated they will never support it due to the sheer rootkit levels that Android Auto does to the OS. Its a shame they have not found a good work around for it yet.

Does Google Wallet / NFC payments work?

Play store is available, just not installed by default. It also lives in a sandbox so has to ask for permission more than it does under standard android.

I never realized how many permissions the play store had, until I ran it under graphene.

GrapheneOS is the number one reason to get a Pixel. They do a lot of good work. Strcat's posts are very informative:

https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=strcat

Coming from an absolute outsider (recent ambivalent iPhone switch, previously Android), how can I know that GrapheneOS is secure and the provenance of my build is legitimate, so that I can trust it with my banking, email, photos, identity, etc.?

Builds are reproducible [1], so you can compile them yourself and check they match the official ones. Additionally, official releases are signed and the update client verifies them and prevents downgrade attacks [2]. You can also install updates offline from a computer if you prefer [3].

[1] https://grapheneos.org/build#reproducible-builds

[2] https://grapheneos.org/releases#about-the-releases

[3] https://grapheneos.org/usage#updates-sideloading

Provenance -> They have a bunch of tooling including attestation that you can use to verify your OS. GrapheneOS also operates like the stock OS with a locked bootloader, just signed with their keys, and the integrity of the boot chain up to and including the OS is what the attenstation app can verify after an initial pairing.

Secure -> It's code. There are no absolute guarantees. They have security enhancements on top of AOSP. So that's a rough proxy for what you should expect.

What about the propietary blobs?

I saw @jchw stating some good point but seems most in this thread here got their head in the sand.

too much trust in a product/service that may be secure on the surface, never means it's actually secure;

I ended up installing lineageOS rooted and firewalling everything and uninstalling useless services...that's better than having a system that is being advertised as state of the art security.

How dl you think google feels if their main OS market is being taken by a "secure" alternative like Graphene OS, unless they both struck a deal or are working together behind closed doors?

I got a suspicion that there's something the lead Dev of Graphene Os is unrevealing to us...hence they put him on desk job like a rookie cop who came across some sh*t that the public shouldn't know...

Meanwhile noone can fully confirm what's inside the OEM signed blobs that are on Graphene OS and other components. What more the heavy suggestion for never rooting; when over 200k apps on the playstore are riddled with malware/spyware?

Why would a billion dollar coorp let such clumsy mistake happen? I am starting to trust the fdroid store over Googleplay (despite being unable to have access to other apps) due to the fact:

Fdroid it's community baded/ the ppl make the app out of purely enjoyment versus montary need.

I have pxl4xl and ended up uninstalling Graphene OS something feels off about it.

No company CEO/Lead Dev just have a public dispute digitally and never explain why and the very next moment they are claimed to have had a mental breakdown.

and the fact that people are asking sincere questions and are being ridiculed for it, even raises more red-flags...

Think about it;

it's 2023, people gotta start thinking for themselves, nothing seems as it awlays is based on surface exposure.

I started only using software/tools by individuals or teams where the morale or principles is non-political and is in alignment with what makes sense no matter where you apply it.

It's a bunch of conspiratorial nonsense.

Reading your comment and the dead comment from the other guy, I can't actually tell what the grievance is. One of the lead devs stepped away from social media? Okay?

From what others have explained, graphene OS is fully open, has a number of provable security improvements over AOSP, and has notable improvements in controlling how apps access your device.

Some healthy skepticism in security software is fine. But I don't think there's anything to what you or the other person are saying. Is there a specific portion of the project, some specific lack of reproducibility in builds or some binary blob injection you're worried about? And if a minor personnel issue is enough to make you question an entire project, maybe you should buy a dumb phone with a Faraday cage, and run slackware on a Thinkpad.