Can I ask how you feel about the larger proposition/regime I'm suggesting? Do you feel criminal trials are the best forum to dea with impaired drivingor or should we maybe update the social contract and traffic policy/car manufacturing etc so we can move on to more practical interventions that stop it before it "happens" (please don't nitpick about "well u already are guilty cuz u started the car", like just answer rhe darn question with as much good faith as it was asked ny me which is completely in)
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Sorry but I disagree.
> maybe it should pull over, lock, and contact assistance to the extent the law allows for you to be pulled aside and deal with a simple ticket/instant fine, no need for due process (instant feedback + administrative approach to offences).
My own property should hold me hostage on the side of some random street if a pothole causes a false positive for drunk driving in some inscrutable algorithm? Not in a million years. Don't punish me for other people's failings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy#Example_2:_D...
There's already a social/legal contract in terms of seat belts that a certain demographic already bitches endlessly about. You'll be in good, voluminous (if scumbaggy) company :(
Sorry, with all due respect, i could not care less about your convenience. If you can't already appreciate the convenience over that whicb came before and you're really that selfish fundamentally, I'm not going to spend more time sitting with you trying to teach you to do what Jesus would do (if you're religious or just being a good world neighbour in general, its pointless anyway. At the end of the day, theres a disconnect between people who do what fails and doesn't work (using the criminal justice system where its just not an effective tool) and want to punish their way out of everything, or there's people like Einstein who suggest when something isnt working its insane to continue thusly, and to find a new approach. Not my finest example but you get the point. I'm washingmy hands of this lol
Its not always about just your convenience respectfully and obviously the tech has to be refined to reduce that absolutely, its def some bullshit but we need to find a lateral solution to this stupid persisten issue and punishing often sick people protestant style clearly isnt working, sorry
Sorry again, I know how much everyone likes to be dismissive of a rational and balanced discussion and use `sorry` as a glib silver bullet to escape scrutiny and resonance but here we find ourselves. I care about you in any case but this selfish and lack of collegiality or desire to problem-solve is a cancer and I will pull every stop to quarantine and stifle it :(
Nothing personal, its just my selfish conceit that I have to prioritize above your feelings in turn. At least we can speak the same language temporarily :/
Please read my first link again.
> Many would answer as high as 95%, but the correct probability is about 2%.
Your system would be orders of magnitude less effective than you are imagining. It's a common enough mistake that it has its own example on that wikipedia page.
You really want to mandate a system where something like 98% of the calls to police would be false positives? Who will pay for all these extra officers who do nothing but drive around the city freeing innocent, sober people from their cars all day?
The seat belt situation is fine, because:
1. Your car doesn't refuse to drive if you don't wear one (such as on private property where it's legal to drive, drunk, with no seatbelt, if you choose)
2. Your car won't hold you hostage for hours if some AI algorithm makes a mistake. The seatbeat detector is 100% accurate under normal conditions and if it fails, the worst thing that can happen is your car will beep at you.
> seat belt
Still sounds like an inconvenience cuz maybe they don't wanna and thats the extent of their articulable issues with it but it still constitutes a violation of "muh freedom/convenience", no?
If they could get the inconvenience/false positive rate to 0%, would you still have philosophical issues with it to the extent you wouldn't accept it or would uou? I hope thats true but what I worry about is that its efficacy is not the actual issue (like in sales where people put forth unknowingly false objections)
> police
Why do police have to be involved? Are there no other means or approaches to civil enforcement? Who said anything about police?
Sorry, I hope I'm not being a total dick cuz I feel like we're listening to each other now but I'm just exhausted currently and the previous response kinda rubbed me the wrong way :(
Didn't mean to rub you the wrong way, the conversation is interesting.
> it still constitutes a violation of "muh freedom/convenience", no?
Yes, but "muh freedom" doesn't apply when you're on public roads with other people. My problem isn't with the law, but with co-opting a device that I paid for to work against my own interests.
Would you be okay with a similar system for seatbelt laws, where if you or your passenger or your child takes off the seatbelt while in motion, your car pulls over to the side of the road and holds you hostage for hours while you wait for someone to come write you a ticket?
> If they could get the inconvenience/false positive rate to 0%...
Simply isn't possible. And even if it was, there are edge cases where it should be allowed, such as:
- wife needs medical attention, and you've had a glass of wine
- wildfires, which can spread surprisingly quickly
- I want to drive on my own property where DUI laws don't apply
Don't kill my wife or make me burn alive in a wildfire because of other random people's mistakes.
> Who said anything about police?
You suggested someone comes and writes you a ticket before freeing you from your car. Who else writes tickets other than cops?
I commented down below on an exigent circumstance model further below. Just click on my handle and it will link you to all I've offered on various facets of the larger topic. We can always iterate but its important to make an effort to start deviating from the status quo towards a more optimal state of things. One of them was a bit "not great" but its sibling comment should be prescient for your purposes. Thanks
> who else writes tix than cops?
Haven't you ever passed one of those speed-testing automated tracker thing that issues people speed tix in the mail automatically?
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