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by rdl·2y ago·view on hn ↗
When I was living in Sealand >20 years ago (another micronation project), was fun tracking the other projects -- this one was one of the most successful. Liberland and a few maritime efforts were as well. Surprisingly few attempts, really.

The new "network state" theories are a lot more interesting overall, though -- creating new groups of people FIRST, then building out progressively more solid physical infrastructure (potentially in different places), then networking them.

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For anyone reading this who might be interested in states that have no physical infrastructure, there is the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.

This is considered a sovereign entity without any territory. They do have money, assets and people though. As far as I'm aware, this is the only country without any territory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Ma...

"In 1947, after the post-World War II peace treaty forbade Italy to own or operate bomber aircraft and only operate a limited number of transport aircraft, the Italian Air Force opted to transfer some of its Savoia-Marchetti SM.82 aircraft to the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, pending the definition of their exact status"

History is incredible.

The deeper I explore societal history, it's all just an incredibly-jumbled series of loopholes.
How was living in Sealand? From what I've read it sounds rough.
I think I did some talks about it ~15 years ago which are probably online. A quick search brings up some stuff but I don't remember which were about Sealand which were about the business. Overall, not horrible; water for showering was limited (rain and a watermaker which often clogged), food/cooking were intermittent (we got grocery deliveries from Tesco to a nearby dock and brought them out every 1-2 weeks)

I've discovered I can tolerate almost any local conditions (tiny dorm room, Sealand, sleeping in a car, trailer in Iraq, tent in Afghanistan, random tiny apartment, hotel, airport lounge, 5 star hotel suite, villa, etc. are all not that different) as long as I have Internet.

I'm currently looking at getting a (50-80', solar, nice) sailing catamaran in a few years and doing RTW trips on it.

I've also found that I can tolerate a variety of lodging conditions and harsh environments, especially cramped ones, so long as I have Internet. I wonder, what psychological mechanism is at play here that allows us to trade comfort for connectivity?
Same reason guys used to live in opium dens.
Huge life hack for early career if you are living condition and location independent is to work at direction of employer in some location they pay for; saves a lot of money. Might be a compound in Saudi Arabia with a villa and driver, might be a corp apartment in Mexico City, etc.
>(50-80', solar, nice) sailing catamaran

Possibly a dumb question but can an individual person even pilot a boat this large?

(not an expert, but based on my research to date:) 50' is borderline (one competent captain, potentially the owner, and one of the passengers helping out at times; of course if you're doing passages, etc you need multiple humans for 24x7 watchkeeping, even if one of the watches is held by someone only competent enough to wake the master. i.e. it's just at the limit of what a couple can probably manage themselves. 40-45 is probably better for that, but for passagemaking across the Pacific you might want bigger, and for group charter use bigger is somewhat better, especially since when you charter you almost certainly will have 2+ crew)

80' is absolutely full time paid captain, full time paid mate (potentially engineering or water toy support), and a steward/also mate-when-needed. If it's being used fully, probably need 2-3 other crew for rotation, and potentially would go 3+1 for a heavily chartered 80'. The paid captain at 80' is not merely for driving the boat but also the management of staff, maintenance scheduling, charter management, etc.

80'/24m is also where the commercial regs come into play (which I'd probably be trying to meet anyway), and 80' cat is already going to have a hard time with marinas in a lot of places (due to being wide, as well as long), but due to solar + good watermatermakers + excellent tenders, could probably operate at anchor far more than otherwise.

I'd probably do the "Boat DAO" model with the 80' and have 4-6 rentable cabins (not true retail, but within friend network, etc, and more particular when I'm using it). This is the specific boat I want: https://sunreef-yachts.com/en/launched/sunreef-80-eco-141/ (although by the time I'm in a position to order, and wait 2-3 years for production, there may be something better, and I'm hoping Starlink, lithium-ion batteries, etc. continue to improve -- mainly from a cost and maintainability perspective.)

Part of my motivation is that some of my friends are doing a lot of Seasteading related stuff and I'd want a boat to be able to visit/stay during some of those events using fixed platforms.

Would probably run Caribbean (where I live) from mid-NOV to mid-MAY (hurricane season avoidance), and then summer in Med, for at least a year or two, then do 2-3 year RTW journey once or twice. My plan would be to personally occupy it ~3 months out of the year at least, and to be able to charter entire boat or individual cabins for enough to defray most of the operating costs if successful. Spending the next couple years getting familiar with sailing around the Caribbean as well as obviously earning more money to be able to afford this ($3-10mm capex, 10-20%/yr of that also total operating budget, although some fraction comes back as earnings). I think I could realistically crowdfund/investment contract ~50-75% of this as well if the business model works out, maybe through prepaid/discounted use. I might get a ~30' powerboat here in Puerto Rico since <41.5' can be lifted out of the water and put into a warehouse rack during hurricane season, and powerboats are far more useful for day and 1-3 day trips around here due to currents/winds. Something able to get to Vieques/Culebra/Culebrita and maybe to USVI or even BVI.

> When I was living in Sealand >20 years ago (another micronation project), was fun tracking the other projects -- this one was one of the most successful. Liberland and a few maritime efforts were as well.

Liberland was never an attempt at building an actual state, it was just a scam meant to generate PR and extract money out of gullible suckers willing to buy a citizenship of a nonexistent state. Liberland's claimed territory (Gornja Siga) is not exceedingly inhabitable, given that the Danube floods it with water multiple meters deep every so often. And their terra nullius story is a lie, as there was never a chance the existing states that manage Gornja Siga would allow for a rogue state to form.

The other thing is that the Liberland project was only announced in 2015, which doesn't fit your timeframe if I get you right.

Rdl talks about them living in Sealand, not Liberland.
Read again, they also mention Liberland.
Found the Croatian cop.
I mean, for a given value of success... Hutt was allowed to continue in as much as their declarations of independence didn't really mean a lot, and he lost numerous court cases showing he did indeed owe tax. In the end it was dissolved and the land was sold off to settle the tax bill.

From where I'm standing (about six hours drive from the Hutt River), Sealand looked way more successful, with some actual court recognition it was outside of UK jurisdiction at various points.

Molossia has had lots of success, and even grants foreign aid to the highly indebted nation of Usa.
LOL, having a read about it on Wikipedia now.

That’s certainly an amusing way of looking at it!

The network state concept reminds me of the sci fi novel “Hopeland” by Ian McDonald.