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I’ve been thinking about the anger response recently as me and my partner are thinking about becoming parents. Some of our friends with children seem to be liable to anger, and it is quite a stereotype of parents around the world using anger, sometimes unintentionally, to impose control on their children, or to express severe disapproval.

I wonder, how do the HN parents here theorise around that? I really don’t want to be an angry parent, as I’ve learned it can wreak havoc on a child’s feeling of psychological safety, but I know that’s easy to say and less easy to do. In my head, one should only ever rely on anger when there is a genuine threat to the child’s life. Really curious of others’ thoughts.

17 comments

Here's a parent of two, 9F, 12M: As soon as you can interact with them set few, understandable rules and stick with them (bed time, screen time, eating habits, chores). Those will create routines and the frictions will decrease. Don't pass to them the responsibility of the decisions (what to eat, seeing or not seeing grandparents, going here or there) as this makes them feel unsure. In the good or in the bad, if you promise, deliver. Let them know there's no such thing as a free lunch, neither at their family home. Be consistent. Those suggestions will help you to avoid anger overflows.

One of the things I’ve struggled with as a parent, having grown up with an angry and remote father, is being able to follow through on consequences/being conflict avoidant (something I generally struggle with) due to an internal guilt and innate discomfort with being “mean”. Over time, this has started to change out of necessity, as my oldest figured this out about me, and began taking advantage of my resistance to anger.

Having two children 7 years apart (with a chance to improve significantly as a parent remaining), I now really understand the wisdom of what you shared here, and try to remind myself of this every day. Love doesn’t always mean pleasant moments. Being firm when called for and establishing rules/consequences makes things easier in the long run, and helps avoid blow up moments.

And last but not least: if you love them, let them know as they need to be ultra sure about that.

Have you ever been in a situation where you slipped out of this routine and had to correct ?

ps: nice tips, thanks

I'm not sure if I understand your question. In my experience my son and daughter always try to challenge the position of the post. They try to check if they can move it a little bit further. I think that this is good and normal. My policy is to re-establish its original position every time I feel they try to move it in a sneaky way but I'm open to discuss the position of the post if they're straight about it and if they can explain to me why it's sensible to move it. I can not stress enough how important have been and still are the routines, as takes away from them the anxiety. e.g. when we get back home in the afternoon: Shoes off, prapare the books for the next day, wash, pajamas, free time, help to prepare the table to eat together, have dinner, clean up the table, free time, 9.45 in bed, sleeping by 10 p.m. They do not have time to fight each other or complain for something they want and don't have. They know what to do in order to have have free time. It took time to establish that, but know that's automatic and they're fine with that. I see them happy and serene. And this routine also helps me, gives me time and my attention is not always focused on me. Do we slip out of the routine? Yes, it can happen, no big drama. Slipping out of the routine now and again does not undo it.

P.s. this routine has been built step by step with time, not everything in one go P.p.s. I hope the meaning of the word 'post' was clear. the post is the limit, the fence.

I've seen people who now struggle with establishing rules with their kids. It seems that at some point they let things slip a bit too far and now it's chaos. I was wondering if you knew how to restore stability :)

thanks again

I'm not morbid with the rules (as said, few and clear) or the pole negotiation. They feel no fatigue to try and move it, but I try to be consistent. Consistency is key as they spot and work on the lack of it very efficiently. I am convinced that you can educate up to 13 years of age latest. After that, I tend to believe that "games are done" (as we use to say in Italy) and they need to work their way out. I will trust on the seeds I tried to plant in them in their first 12/13 years. After that their individuality needs to - and will - be expressed.

You're all very welcome

Errata: not always focused on them

You try every trick in the book to not let your anger control your actions in the moment - taking deep breaths; counting to 10/20/50; asking for 'time out', etc. Depending on a whole bunch of variables, some of which are completely out of your control, you may or may not be successful.

On those occasions where you're not successful, you come back to your child later and share that you're sorry you behaved the way you did, that you wished you'd handled it differently, and that you commit to trying to do better in the future.

Of course this assumes the child is of an age where this conversation makes some semblance of sense to them. I'd argue that age is younger than most people give kids credit for.

To me the key skill is to “act angry” while at the meantime suppressing any actual anger. I think it’s important to demonstrate to children what society expects of them and how people respond to bad behaviour but at the same time I believe one should never “act out one’s anger” as that can lead to a loss of control. I always tell myself they’re “just kids” while at the same time reminding myself I owe it to them to role play the situation. It seems to me a very easy thing to do but I know many people who simply don’t get it at all so I must be lucky I guess.

This is kind of true... It is extremely hard to stay calm in many situations having kids. In my opinion this has nothing to do with the ability to stay calm in general. It's more like long time of being stressed out that gets you there. Understanding that you are permanentely stressed out and taking the right measures (take time for yourself, don't take things to seriously, make everything a little game, children just don't WORK like adults - they are children, etc.) is most important.

Becoming parents is a process. Most of this process is great and it enriches your life, but parts of it may be so hard, that you can't explain it to anyone without kids. The first child was kind of ok-ish in my memory :-) But:

Imagine you have 2 little kids, both are sick, because one of them brought it in. They are not able to express their feelings by telling you what the problem is, they just cry the whole day and night. You and your partner are also getting sick, not as bad as your children, but you don't feel well. You can't ask for help, because there is a probability of infecting these persons. You don't sleep much for days and can't really rest. You are worried all the time, because your kids are really sick and you have to care about them, if it gets worse.

In a situation like this, minor daily tasks will be major efforts and at some point you just break down.

Not everything is as hard as this example, but usually having a toddler is energy-sapping all the time. At the same time it's a totally great experience.

It's possible that "It takes a village to raise a child" also applies to families.

Absolutely. There is a german book called "Erziehen ohne Schimpfen" (Parenting without scolding), which provided me deep insights into the behaviour of my children and my own behaviour in response to it. It is also a stated fact in this book that in "non-western" countries it is normal that a child is raised by the whole (extended) family (grandparents, uncle / aunt, brother sister, friends, etc.) which is a relieve for parents in general.

It just does not help to punish or shout at your child in any way, in fact it makes things worse. However, in situations like I described above, it also helps to be more forgiving about your own behaviour, as long as you try your best to prevent these "breakdowns" and most important APOLOGIZE instead of just being ashamed. Nobody stays calm all the time.

I'm suggesting collective attention/assistance for families may also be necessary to achieve certain outcomes (ie: reducing the number/magnitude of things people complain about all the time).

It's okay, understandable and even healthy to be angry. It is not okay, however, to let your anger to drive your actions in a way that hurts others.

And anger should not be looked in isolation. Passive avoidance, passive aggression, dismissiveness or manipulative mind-bending tricks are lightyears worse than an occasional anger outburst - even if these patterns are not as apparent.

It is important for the children to learn about different feelings, their control, and so on. This is not an excuse to use anger to control kids but I think you shouldn't avoid it at all costs or you will burn out or lose faith in humanity. It's not binary, angry or not angry, because there is a full range of emotions between the two end points. For example, there are few things that make me angry anymore but my older child hitting the younger one to hurt him, e.g., to revenge something trivial such as stealing a toy, which has unfortunately happened once or twice, makes my blood boil and I am happy to make it clear that there is a limit to my (and everyone else's) tolerance. As a sane person you then feel bad about losing your temper. Dealing with difficult emotions and explaining them is part of raising children.

This is something my wife and I discuss regularly. I wouldn't say a lot, but it's an ongoing issue we wrestle with.

Part of it is that I think she and I have opposite problems. She really doesn't express anger with our child very much at all, and I tend to get overly angry at times. Both lead to their own significant problems.

Maybe to your second point, part of the dynamic that results is that there's something that needs to be corrected or diverted early on, mildly, and my wife doesn't do that, doesn't establish boundaries or express any anger, and then something escalates from our child. By the time it gets to that point, I feel the need to correct it, which has already gotten out of control, and then I don't know what to do and probably get more angry than I should.

I really don't believe that complete inexpression of anger is good. As the article points out, people do get angry, and everyone does things that make others angry sometimes. Children need to know that and understand that. And I see the consequences of this with my wife and child: even when I have nothing to do with the situation, and don't get angry and stay out of it completely, I see how frustrated and hurt my wife gets by adopting that approach, and the problems that causes.

I think the trick is — and this is where you're kind of threading the needle — is to communicate anger but in a way that's not hurtful or threatening. You want to model being angry but also constructively responding to that anger, like the article is saying, proportionate anger, and so forth.

Parenting is difficult because every child is different and no one is perfect. So advice you hear might not work at all with a particular child, and it's often easier to say than do consistently 100% of the time. On the other hand, I think children are their own beings, and can learn from your mistakes at times as well. I don't mean that dismissively, more as something to keep in mind when you're feeling hard on yourself as a parent.

The Inuit have come up with an innovative solution for a teaching kids to control anger in playful manner. YMMV.

As to the original post, seems dubious at best. Succumbing to anger is simply punishing yourself for others' mistakes. Anger is a natural and even healthy emotion, but trying to harness it perpetuates it. I do not know about you, but who wants to be angry all the time to stay motivated? Surely there are better ways?

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/13/6855333...

Somewhat related to your question:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/13/6855333...

Previous threads with about this article: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

When you get angry at your kids, after you deal with the situation, and after you calm down, think through what you were really angry about. Was it about your kids? Or was it about you?

Let's say my kid is throwing a tantrum in a restaurant, and I get angry at them. Am I angry because I want to be the kind of parent whose kids behave? And now all these people in the restaurant think I'm not that kind of parent? And I'm angry because they now think less of me?

That anger is wrong. I'm mad, not because my kid is doing something wrong per se, but because they're ruining my self-image. When I have that kind of anger, the problem is me - not my kid having a tantrum, but me. I'm not angry about my kid making a scene in the restaurant; I'm angry about my kid making a mess of my ego. The real problem is my ego and my selfishness.

So when you're angry with your child, check yourself. See if that kind of thing is why you're angry. To the degree it is, you need to grow - not your child, but you. (Your child may also need to grow, but that's a separate issue.)

And for what it's worth, those of us in the restaurant - at least those of us who have kids - aren't condemning your because your child is causing a scene. We've all been there. You have our sympathy and understanding, not our condemnation.

When they're really young, there shouldn't be any anger towards them at all. They don't know whT they're doing and can't really communicate. As they get older, they can communicate and understand better. Mistakes still do happen. The only thing that should really make one angry is when they start to be defiant or should know better after repeatedly setting the expectation of behavior.

The big thing is aligning your own expectations with what small children can or can't do. It's hard to get mad if you have already prepared in your mind format the reality is likely to be like (a miserable mess).

Although I wonder if expecting this misery and culturing apathy towards large parts of life to avoid anger had negatively affected my job. After all, dealing with the bureaucracy is a lot like dealing with an irrational toddler. My performance has greatly suffered since becoming a parent, so much that I'm concerned about my future ability to support the family.

I’m a parent and my house is a no anger, no punishment house.

If a child isn’t behaving the way I expect, I start with the assumption that the full picture has not been explained to them of why they’re behavior doesn’t fit with what I/others expect.

Kids don’t start knowing everything, they need it explained.

Many parents show their kids a behavior is not ok by getting angry.

I respect responding to misbehaving constructively, but also letting your kids know that it's okay to feel a wide range of emotions is really important for healthy emotional outcomes. Anger is a bad parenting tactic, but also, anger is not an unhealthy emotion in and of itself. Suppressing anger is, at least according to some schools of psychology, a source of depression.

It's okay to be angry as a parent. But child needs you to be a calm and supportive parent. So I think it's important to learn how to manage your anger and be a positive role model for your child.

Your kids are going to model your behaviour so be the person you want them to be and just make sure they feel loved and accepted.

sleep deprivation is a helluva drug

But seriously, it's important to be able to have, and use, an authoritative voice without becoming angry. I didn't realize how loud I can be (without screaming or yelling) before having children.

They can't read your mind and I think most people get angry with others when there is some fundamental miscommunication or missed expectation.

Anger doesn’t work in parenting. It may seem to work, but it won’t long term. It’s almost impossible to be an explosive or angry parent and not have it lead to negative behaviour in your children. Some are going to live a life of fear, some might even develop what’s close to PTSD or anxiety. Others will get anti-social or self-destructive tendencies in their reactions and so on. The worst part about it is that you absolutely don’t need to get angry or raise your voice to assert yourself as the parent figure in “I’m the adult I decide” situations, you just need patience and assertiveness.

Often it’ll not even be your kids you’re angry at, it’ll be you reacting to stressful situations. If you’re prone to anger under stress, it’ll probably be a good idea for you to simply do things much earlier than you’d otherwise like. I know my wife is bad at handling situations where we have to leave the house for longer trips, so I typically pack everything possible beforehand, sometimes the night before. I’ve also “taught” her to do things like making the children’s lunches the night before instead of during the morning when she has to get the kids out the door in a timely manner.

Another thing we’ve done is to create graphical depictions of the tasks our children have to do each morning. We did this with our children and had them mostly tell us which steps they needed to perform and only helping them with the order and if they forgot something. This way my wife can point to the drawing and sequence of tasks that are their “responsibility”. Which has helped immensely.

Part of being assertive is also sticking to what you say. When I say something it gets done that way. At least 95% of the time. If I can feel a change is extremely important to one of my children, we’ll change it, but usually how I outline things is how they are going to happen. I don’t do this with anger, but with patience, but the magical thing about it is that my kids know and usually don’t fight it because they know it’s useless to fight it.

It is also better to “trick” your kids than to yell at them or enforce strict anger responses. Instead of fighting young children about getting dressed or whatever, you can tell them that you’re going to get your shoes on first. Similar when you’re eating, and they refuse to eat anything, you can tell them that they can’t have any because it’s “adult” food only, or say something like “I really hope noobe eats this delicious food on my fork” and look away and then pretend to be surprised and blame everyone including the pet for taking it.

You’re also going to have to accept that things take time, that they are hard and that your children will go through different phases. It’s often helpful to remember that most of the time they aren’t being “disobedient” on purpose, sometimes they may not even know why they are fighting you or whatever it is that they are fighting. You need to remember that they are learning emotions and that it’s ok for them to feel whatever they feel. You also need to remember that your patience is infinite while theirs isn’t.

My biggest issue is usually not to laugh at their “stupidity”. Like when my daughter gets really, really, angry and trash some of her toys. Like… how is that supposed to hurt me? I do try to disarm the situation by telling her that if her toys break she will be sorry later and that usually helps. If she’s violent toward us I stop it, not in an angry manner by very assertive.

Finally you have to remember that while your children are riled up it’s very hard to talk to them. It’s always better to distract them and then talk about it later when they calm down.

Oh and don’t worry about what other people are thinking about you carrying a screaming child through a store after you refuse to buy them a toy or candy or whatever. Any parent won’t be judging you, they’ll be emphatic with you because we’ve all been there. If you stick your ground and follow through on your denial it’ll eventually stop. If you cave, you’re in for a life of hell.

The majority of a small child's activities are a genuine threat to the child's life.

I'm naturally prone to anger, so were my parents, in my experience with my parents, and my kids, the line is how you react once angry.