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This is very interesting because there’s really no reason for this limitation to exist with regards to EU users. The only reason I can see for this is that Apple knows their rules are so unpopular that users from the rest of the world might go as far as travel abroad or start trafficking devices to get around them.
> Apple knows their rules are so unpopular
Are they? I know developers don’t like the rules, but I don’t know a lot of iPhone owners who feel particularly stifled by them. If they did, presumably they’d just buy an Android phone?
I don’t know a lot of iPhone owners who feel particularly stifled by them
Apple will really bend over backwards to screw their customers, even if they are legally bound to. What is the point in making it this complicated? Hope we find a way around this technical limitation, although knowing Apple it isn’t going to be easy.
The good news is that once the EU does the heavy lifting of beating Apple into submission, it's relatively easy for other regions to say "enable EU mode for us as well, thanks".
For better or worse, lawmakers are allergic to copying another jurisdiction’s regulations. What we are inevitably going to end up with, if anything, is a mishmash of superficially differing rules between jurisdictions. Apple will either use their infinite resources to maliciously comply with all of them to the minimum degree required, creating an increasingly shittified, fragmented experience. Or, cooler heads will prevail, Apple will admit to themselves that the party is over, and they’ll start complying with the spirit of the law.
The point is that it’s half their bottom line
Mostly from a handful of apps, why limit everyone else?
> is the point in making it this complicated?
What do they lose by fighting it tooth and nail? They don't want consumers using 3rd party app stores. Apple users have been plenty happy without them for years, too.
> Apple users have been plenty happy without them for years, too.
As an iPhone owner I have been annoyed at the walled garden for years.
Seems like a non-issue then and Apple should open up their platform if they are so sure of their superior app store.
This feels like a malicious version of the fair usage exceptions to the EU's mobile phone roaming regulations. I hope the EU tightens up the rules to prevent this as these does not seem to be any justification for this, crossing a border doesn't suddenly add additional cost to Apple.
As a non_EU citizen, I hope other countries follow suite and pass similar laws. So far the EU has single-handedly faced Apple's unethical actions, and while I have several Apple devices, I hope more pressure is put on the company to save it from itself.
As someone who used to be in the field of public relations before starting a career in software - I don't understand why they are doing this. Surely they realise that this stuff is going to end up on mainstream media and damage their image?
EDIT: I get what people are saying about the App Store fees but reputational damage does cost money, possibly quite a lot.
I think you have the right take, because right now exactly zero people are smuggling iPhones out of the EU to use 3rd party app stores. These non-existent smugglings are costing Apple $0
So this is just a PR fiasco and a way for Apple to look like a comic book villain that spites both customers and governments, at no gain to itself. If this thing Apple execs apparently fear more than the Devil himself were to actually happen then OK do the calculus and ban what you think you need to ban. But doing it now is just silly.
Apple used to be a company that was famously good at managing its image, no more it seems. A slow decline into incompetency accompanied by a relentless focus on profit maximization is a classic sign that a company has obtained illegal monopoly rents in one form or another and needs to be brought to justice
Who needs reputation when you can have a 30% cut of every microtransaction game instead?
This is to prevent the EU DMA rules (and 3rd party EU app stores) from infecting their other markets.
The idea being, I could travel to the EU (or just buy an EU iPhone), install a 3rd party App Store + apps, then happily use a non-Appstore iPhone outside the EU.
I don't particularly think this "infection" a big risk, but Apple sure seems to.
Apple has been known to abuse their users like this for over a decade. Still somehow they're huge, they have a loyal fanbase of people that make excuses for it to justify their conspicuous consumption. They know it, so they do what they want.
> I don't understand why they are doing this
Billions and billions of dollars, that's why.
I think this is more about reducing support costs than extracting every transaction fee. A major benefit of a walled garden is that you can maintain a controlled system with largely predictable expectations of what problems users will encounter and the costs of providing support.
Say what you want about Apple’s products, but their support is top tier and a major selling point for many consumers. It’s also very expensive to provide.
Relaxing AppStore restrictions reduces both security and expected behavior the phone. People here will argue otherwise, but it is a fact. Alternative web browsers require the ability to make the most dangerous, security compromising system call that can be done by a normal app. Things will inevitably go wrong in ways that Apple cannot control, and users will seek the support they expect. Unfortunately now Apple is at the mercy of Google or whomever to release their own patches while Apple fronts the support costs for problems they didn’t create.
Losing control of the system and being unable to provide the expected level of customer satisfaction is more damaging to the brand than otherwise. Outside of tech circles, nobody cares about alternative app stores or which JIT compiler is running when they browse the web
It can’t possibly hurt more than what they gain from racketeering
I think this third party appstore is an existential threat to apple in the sense that no one jailbreaks there iphone, because they need legit apps, but if the EU allows third party apps stores, then Americans could start jailbreaking their phones and just using third party app stores.
How is that an existential threat to apple though? Don't they profit from selling the physical phones?
So basically you should avoid using an iphone if you rely on a specific application from a 3rd party app store because apple will cripple it on purpose depending on how you choose to live your life.
Pretty much. Android the way to go there.
I wonder if the tracking of location of European users will also be declared illegal under privacy laws, making it illegal for Apple to determine whether or not a European user is in Europe.
I sure hope it would be.
The inability to update an app installed from a 3rd party appstore is clearly a threat to the platform integrity of iOS. If Apple believes its own convenient rhetoric [1] it must forcibly uninstall those apps or allow installed apps to continue updating.
[1]: as outlined in, e.g. https://developer.apple.com/security/complying-with-the-dma....
One medical/security app event away from reversal. Policy Speedrun 2024.
This has a super simple solution that would break even Apple.
Change the law so that any device sold must comply with the DMA for all EU citizens, regardless of domicile.
Thus, any company that denies a EU citizen under the DMA, even if they live in the US, shall be considered noncomplaint.
Also, to make sure no tricks are used, make sure to specify that it is illegal to require citizenship verification for DMA rights.
Or require it of all devices sold in the EU, regardless of where those devices are later brought. This would be entirely defensible - "we're just regulating products sold within our market" - but inevitably they would make their way outside the EU to be resold.
There’s an even simpler solution. Continue to fine them until they stop playing games.
Yes I always dreamed of uploading my passport and proof of residence to use a phone..
This most probably violates Cyber Resilience Act by intentionally making their customers vulnerable to prevent security updates.
So now I need to give up my privacy because I need to let Apple use my GPS / IP address?
They say it's their on-device indicator, but that could mean many things. GPS, external IP, cell phone masts...
Do I really own the device if I can't control what runs on it?
No you dont have to accept IP address/GPS tracking most probably.
your iPhone has a phone component inside and that phone component knows exactly (well depending on the tower you are connected to) what country are you in.
PS: yes your cellphone network provider knows pretty accurate when you are entering your country and exiting it.
Slightly off topic: Haven’t tried it, but does a simple VPN for the EU allow you to access all these great EU features like 3rd party appstores?
Apple says you must be physically located in an EU country to be eligible, as determined by your device, so presumably they are checking GPS and/or cellular location data rather than just IP geolocation.
[dupe]
Some more discussion a few days ago:
Though I’m happy to see the 3rd party apps - I really don’t get why people even buy apple devices if they want to side load or do other such things.
In terms of camera quality, battery life, or any single criterion it’s not like apple devices are the best anyway.
As a side note - I really don’t understand the logic that leaves gaming consoles exempt.
As a second side note - how is apple even determining if you are an EU citizen or in an EU country? Presumably GPS, but is the implication that EU users must phone home to apple every 30 days?
> I really don’t get why people even buy apple devices if they want to side load or do other such things.
That's Apple's argument, but it's bs. It's like Microsoft selling you Windows with ads all over the place and then when you complain they say: "I don't understand why you buy Windows if you don't want to see ads, there are other options w/o ads."
> how is apple even determining if you are an EU citizen or in an EU country
Both cell towers and wifi base stations advertise the country code they're in. Every phone needs to know what jurisdiction it is in order to do things like route emergency services calls or what radio frequency bands to enable.
I’m honestly done with Apple. I’m American but from the horribly locked down devices, anti-repair mechanisms built into devices (ie, software locked feature after non-Apple repair), apple pushing right to repair propaganda through lobbyist groups and “McKinsey” type consultants, and just general abuse from the company towards app developers (ie, high fees charged, “rules for thee, but not for me” such as with Network APIs applied to 3rd party sw but apps like App Store bypass this, stealing of ideas).
Great looking products. But behind those products is a predator looking to extract as much money/time from you.
Keep fining them until they get it.
Isn’t Apple tracking your location like this a gdpr violation even if they don’t store the results?
I don’t know how it works, but I don’t see why it would need to leave the device.
Wow, nice, tracking people now. Oh, wait... ;)
Apple beeing evil. I hope they get fined by the EU.