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I'm definitely not one of those people who thinks Windows should stay frozen forever as Windows XP, I appreciate we're finally getting 15-20 year old features like search filtering in the task manager.
But whoever's bonus metric is tricking people to sign in with MS accounts is really making it a gross experience. I managed to finally get my new machines install on a local account using "OOBE\BYPASSNRO" although none of the instructions I found online worked for some reason, eventually found the script find myself. Then when trying to eventually register Windows it tricked me into converting to a MS account because the license troubleshooter forces you to login to do anything.
Next time I boot my machine its asking for my MS password instead of my local password... So that's taught me to never enter my MS account into anything on the desktop because there is a risk it will silently do that.
You have a "Home" and a "Pro" version, really just wish for a world where they do this silly scammy behavior in the Home version and let the Pro version just be an actual tool to use hardware. I'm not using Windows because it's a great operating system I'm only using it because it's the only OS in the Venn diagram of "Supports Nvidia GPUs" and "Runs Adobe CC", can't they just be happy I use it at all.
> You have a "Home" and a "Pro" version, really just wish for a world where they do this silly scammy behavior in the Home version and let the Pro version just be an actual tool to use hardware.
This "it's fine if they scam other people as long as they leave me alone" attitude is really bizarre to me. If they keep showing you that they can't be trusted… maybe believe them?
I was a user of several microsoft services that worked relatively well. On computer I used to have onenote and onedrive. On phone I also had the outlook app to manage all emails.
For exactly the very same reason you stated, I have stopped using them. Whilst I can still use them on my android phone, there is no point if they dont sync to my computer, and they don't sync to my computer because I am afraid of putting my microsoft password in anything that is not firefox.
Hence, I already moved out from onenote to Joplin (still synced via onedrive), (I am not happy with the move) and I stopped syncing with Onedrive, and will have to move soon to something else. On my phone I stopped having outlook, and I am back to use each app for each email.
As you, I am also trap on windows (tried fedora, it simply didn't work).
Sad times for people who want just a computer that works.
Why not the opposite? Track the Pro users all you want since these are people willing to spend more money on MS features and possibly also using their devices as a work device where the company pays for it. Leave the Home users (kids, parents, grandparents, etc.) alone and not get them into forcing signups, misclicking random shit, etc.
This is a pretty good step by step:
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-witho...
According to the Windows 11 system requirements[1],
Windows 11 Home edition requires internet connectivity and a Microsoft Account to complete device setup on first use.
So can't you just tell Windows 11 Pro you don't have an Internet connection, given that it's officially optional?
[1] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-syste...
Pirate it next time!
>and let the Pro version just be an actual tool to use hardware.
Pro has Group Policy, among which is an option to block Microsoft account logins at the OS level. It kind of breaks Microsoft 365 subscriptions if you need Office 365, but that's obvious.
Other Group Policies include ones to turn off Windows Autoupdates, block OneDrive, block Copilot, and more.
I recently had to install windows on 2 computers after some years without doing it.
Had to spend an entire day debloating the thing. Had to use a handful of tools and powershell scripts to do it.
I still can't imagine how they managed to make a context menu open in almost a full second. In Windows 9x on a 200Mhz it was instant. A useless one too, because all the options that matter are in the old one.
The only thing holding me from Linux is ThrottleStop and MSI Afterburner, which are a must for gaming on my laptop
> The only thing holding me from Linux
I've spent the last 25 years using linux and seeing this statement.
There's always something.
>I still can't imagine how they managed to make a context menu open in almost a full second
They did make everything slower than it used to be when it comes to new UI elements, but the context menu can also be slowed down by third parties.
On my machine, the primary cause was the shortcut to AMD radeon settings. You can remove it with this powershell command :
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers AdvancedMicroDevicesInc-RSXCM | Remove-AppxPackage -AllUsers
It was a major pain to find how to disable this thing. In fact, if you google "AdvancedMicroDevicesInc-RSXCM" (with the quotes, to get a verbatim search) you won't find more than a handful of results talking about its existence.
It doesn't uninstall the settings panel itself, just the shortcut. Yes, the context menu shortcut is a standalone app package of its own. It's crazy.
After uninstalling this AMD crap the context menu went from taking a second to being almost instantaneous.
On other people's machines I've also remarked certain antivirus like Kaspersky causing major issues with 11's context menu performance.
I thought the new context menu was all about fixing the mistakes of the previous ones when it came to the nasty things people can do in extending explorer.exe but seeing the behavior of those new third party additions to the menu, I guess not.
There is nothing inherently special about ThrottleStop and MSI Afterburner, these are merely (proprietary) Windows-specific utilities for changing the behavior of your hardware.
Running these programs on Linux would not make sense because their only purpose is to twist knobs in the Windows OS. Linux has different knobs so their functions do not apply.
Thus your restriction is self-imposed more than anything, you are effectively saying "the only thing stopping me from switching to Linux is that it's not Windows."
Between your BIOS settings and programs like cpufrequtils and CoreCtrl there are equivalents to those programs, but interacting with hardware is platform-specific. You may have to learn different programs because Linux abstracts access to your hardware differently, thus your preferred Windows-specific utilities will not have any use :D
This is in contrast to productivity applications like Adobe which could reasonably work the exact same way across platforms... if only they were cross-platform at all :(
> can't imagine how they managed to make a context menu open in almost a full second. In Windows 9x on a 200Mhz it was instant. A useless one too, because all the options that matter are in the old one.
And the system sounds now take a few seconds to chime - often after I already dismissed the corresponding dialogue
This may not fulfill your needs in the way that MSI Afterburner and ThrottleStop do, however I would recommend checking out MangoHUD and cpufrequtils respectively for similar (but perhaps not identical) behaviour.
Use Chris Tutus' Debloat utility https://github.com/ChrisTitusTech/winutil
Other than being able to gobble up user data and being able to associate it with a person (or at least an email address) and later sell that information, what is Microsoft reasoning for refusing local accounts?
This whole obsession with forcing users to create a Microsoft account is really weird. It may provides some features for certain types of users, but I really don't see any reason for forcing a Microsoft account. Apple also REALLY want you to have an Apple ID, but you don't have to.
I still fail to see why Microsoft doesn't go all in on privacy, do they really need the extra profit from advertising?
Microsoft doesn't give a shit about the desktop anymore and at this point they're also stopping to care about the business customers, unless they can move them to subscription based services in the cloud.
More user hostility. Less user choice.
I remember a few years ago on here everyone crowing about the new Microsoft and how it wasn't like the old one. It's notably worse a this point.
I have a theory, which I have no way of backing up or testing at all, that the entire slump in the laptop segment is driven by the fact that Windows is just utterly user-hostile garbage, and there aren’t any alternatives really, other than MacOS, which is too tied to Apple.
Like any reasonable tech savvy person I use Linux of course, but I’d have trouble suggesting it… lots of people just don’t want to use the terminal at all.
I just recently had to reinstall it a second time because my first image didn't let me past the account registration. It specifically stated that an internet connection is required and there was no way around it. On a notebook where neither ethernet nor wlan worked out of the box btw, I had to install them manually. That wouldn't have been possible with the old install.
While I had an adapter to enable networking just fine, I opted to reinstall with a cleaned image.
This is really bad work, Microsoft... maybe think about why your users are looking for workarounds here.
And no, I do not want secure boot either, thank you very much.
Little bit off topic, sorry.
Windows 10 support ending in 2025 is really scary. Literally billions of computers are not eligible to install Windows 11 because of artificial limitations, all of these are supposed to be trashed? That would be an enormous amount of e-waste.
Realistically one or a combination of the following will happen:
- Microsoft extends the deadline
- There will be a paid long term support update channel, and hopefully a registry edit will enable this (happened a couple of times before)
- Most people will continue to use it without security updates (most likely)
My husband is a normal layperson who treats his computer like an appliance. It's just there to do word processing and web browsing. He's been asking me to buy him a new laptop and specifically wants Windows on it.
I've been struggling for weeks trying to explain to him why Windows is bad and why I don't want to setup and manage his spyware machine.
I've convinced him to at least try a few Linux distros to see what he's comfortable with, but he either doesn't understand why Windows is bad or just doesn't care.
For now I'm avoiding purchasing the new machine, and he's begrudgingly using my manjaro laptop. I really don't know what to do about it. The most solid argument I've got so far is that I can't help him with any of the inevitable windows 11 issues because I just don't use windows anymore.
Windows should be broken up.
"Windows 11 Platform" for applications, drivers, security updates, and gaming. No (forced) Microsoft account. Only security updates.
"Windows 11 Plus" is a subscription model for enhanced features.
What their system requirements tell consumers:
> Windows 11 Pro for personal use and Windows 11 Home require internet connectivity and a Microsoft account during initial device setup. [1]
[1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifica...
I've recently bought a windows laptop for my grandparents and it had W11... It looked bloated af... Had to change some bios settings to install some older version of windows 10 so that the system would look similar to what they know, but I'm thinking next time I'll just install Ubuntu + maybe some skin + rustdesk to help them if needed and deal with it
Now that I've started getting Windows 10 EOL Notifications (on aging 2017 hardware), I'll be needing to upgrade to a new Desktop + OS soon.
No idea what my next Desktop OS is going to be but definitely don't want ads/spyware in a progressively user hostile OS so it will be the first time where I wont be using Windows as my primary OS. I've been using macOS on my macbooks and deploy exclusively to Linux servers so either OS will be a viable alternative.
It will come down to whether Apple can ship compelling M4 H/W at this years WWDC, if they don't I'll be switching to a Linux Desktop OS where it will finally be the year of the Linux Desktop!
It really seems Microsoft is trying hard to push users to Linux (or other alternatives)
They go exactly according to the plan. Now you officially don't own your own personal computer.
Well, I'll personally weather this storm on my Windows 10 LTSC 21H2. I'm sure people will figure out something until 2027-01-12, when its security supports end, or Microsoft will release the Win 11 LTSC-equivalent.
Ultimately, the only reason we need to look at is late stage capitalism (and I say this as someone who believes in the market economy). Windows was the historic money maker at Microsoft, they held all the keys, all the power. The regime is changing however. OSes are more and more commoditised and the money has moved to Cloud and now AI. But there is one rule of the market: you have to post gains every quarter. So what is the Windows team to do? There is no growth to be had anywhere else, so they become increasingly less scrupulous in an effort to squeeze more $$$ out of the product.
This is obviously a race to the bottom. They know, we know it, the market knows it. However, as long as the numbers keep going up, the market will reward this self destructive behaviour and the team will indulge it.
They aren't stupid, they know that these features are annoying, but they'll keep pushing them to find the optimal point between the users being pissed off and profit going up.
The risk is of course that they launch a positive feedback loop of exodus and end up destroying the product in the long term, but in the long term we are all dead and the PMs profiting from these user hostile policies will be long retired...
Still condider windows 2000 to be 'peak windows usability' ... and usable with tiny amounts of ram ;)
Somehow I managed getting through the setup of a 2nd hand laptop that came with Win 11 preinstalled. At one point they wanted me to enter a Microsoft account but through back and forth I somehow was able to skip it although I couldn't reproduce it. Probably I accidentally did the same as described in the article.
Anyway, requiring a Microsoft account sucks and I wonder if it's even legal in the EU (better to ask for forgiveness than permission, I guess, right MS?). Conclusion is, Microsoft sucks as much as ever, even with all the open source and Microsoft loves Linux.
I'm so happy my brand new computer a few years ago was deemed not powerful enough for Windows 11 so I stayed on 10. Windows for home users is clearly in a death spiral.
> It seems that Microsoft is aiming to make the use of Windows 11 dependent on a Microsoft account. In combination with the increased calls for Windows users to finally switch to Windows 11, this appears to be a controversial combination.
I want to see if they really manage to force several millions of users out of the blue to make a MS account, against the explicit will of those users.
As consumer-hostile as Microsoft's practices are, and that these things needs to be optional, I find linking your Windows to a Microsoft's account still pretty useful. With it you can sync your Windows settings across different devices. You can use Find My Device. You can save your BitLocker's encryption key to the cloud. It helps when you forgot your login password. Copilot AI stuffs,... Turning off telemetry and deinstalling some bloatware requires clicking through a few menus, but it's still a mostly just-work experience compared to the amount of time I need to set up a Linux box.
On Linux, configuring the fingerprint to work everywhere requires reading through different online threads and edit a config file. Enabling TPM auto disk decryption involves 10 steps command line. Enabling proprietary video codecs necessitates adding a third party repository. And many other small issues that I have to troubleshoot (shutdown freezing, sddm crashing after wake-up from sleep, PackageKit unable to update package, having to turn on a kernel flag for touchpad to work...). I really want Linux to work for me but still have to decide to use Windows on my personal laptop, coming from someone who has to work with Linux everyday at work.
Windows 11 LTSC just came out last week and no online account needed (also no crapware, no TPM, no Secure Boot etc.)
Okay then, I'll just switch my gaming rig to Ubuntu and fiddle with Wine or whatever to get my Quake Champions running. Might take a small performance hit but I'm not going to use Windows with a Microsoft account. Not ever. Not going to happen.
It's worth noting ChromeOS doesn't let you do that either, while MacOS doesn't require an iCloud account. iOS doesn't either, but is pushy about having an iCloud account. Don't know about Android.
So that means they fixed SMB folder shares with Microsoft accounts, right?
Very good move, seems like Microsoft really embraces Linux nowadays :)
Sometimes I read the latest news from my adoptive industry and truly ponder the probability that we have been reincarnated in another world's hell.
So what would be a good laptop for Linux these days?
I wonder how much work it is to check if Windows was installed with an account and terminate the program in that case.
They just fixed bug I guess...
Unless "OOBE\BYPASSNRO" still works I don't have any problem with that
We've been moving our fleet to OSX, I am so tired of dealing with Windows and Microsoft in particular.
They are trying so hard to de-evolve Windows into iOS and android.
i have also noticed dark patterns with making you login if you have a local account. really annoying and at least there should be some respite for pro users.
It really is disgusting that they'll block workarounds like this. Do they REALLY need to force this on the less than 1% of users who might use such workarounds?
You can use a program called Rufus to create a bootable flash drive from a Windows ISO which lets you bypass the Microsoft login.
This is how Microsoft is fighting piracy: "So you want to use our software and not pay for it, huh? Fine, but in return we need your personal data and behaviour, and we will show you unwanted ads in the Start menu and other places. Deal?"