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What does banning tiktok even look like? I assume I can just download the apk, or will I need to VPN somewhere as well?
The most likely, and most effective way would be to prohibit US businesses from conducting business with TikTok, it's subsidiaries and affiliates. Similar to economic sanctions.

Being removed from US App Marketplaces (Apple, Android, Microsoft, Amazon, etc), forbidden from doing business with US Advertising companies (Google, etc), forbidden from Banking in the US, and forbidden from working with US technology/hosting/cloud companies - TikTok rots and eventually becomes untenable to operate within the US.

Alternatively, build a transparent TikTok clone with a socially positive algorithm for presenting content. I'd start an algorithm focused on tolerating all views except when that view would damage or destroy tolerance.

I like to think that an open system like this would outcompete the PRC propaganda machine.

This is something many parents in ky community should have been done for YT and Meta too. We also feel American CIA is spying via this American propaganda machines. In fact to date I am still waiting for proof of such thing with TikTok as I have already seen proof of such with Meta and YT.
If TikTok is truly an agent of the CCP as the US government claims, then they could just run their web service for free. No need to do business in the US at all.
I guess that TikTok will be forced to deny connections and app stores will be forced to blacklist the app from any IP addresses from the US or they get sued.

Central blocking on DNS side etc. is unlikely.

It's a Chinese company, why would they care about the US trying to sue them? The US will need to block, remove, and sanction.
Which the US can do. Being "in the US" means that they take in dollars from US sources. To take dollars from US sources, they will have to work with US institutions, which will all banned from working with them.

Sure, they could accept money from people in US through Bitcoin, but I don't think they business would be exactly viable if that's their payment model.

Absolutely. My point was the US trying to "sue" a Chinese company is an utterly pointless endeavor.
Well, it's suing its US incarnation, which should be some sort of LLC or Corporation. The US can certainly get rid of that, which will both significantly defund the Chinese company and eliminate its US presence (and vastly reduce the data collection of US sources which is in theory the motivation for this whole story).
> It's a Chinese company, why would they care about the US trying to sue them?

If they had no physical, legal, and financial presence in the US, then sure, it would be somewhat impossible to sue them.

However, TikTok is registered as a legal business entity in the US, they have employees in the US working for that business entity, they have physical properties (that they likely lease) where said employees work, and they have money going through their US accounts.

In the TikTok scenario specifically, it makes perfect sense to me why and how the US would sue them.

I would assume that would all go away if they get banned, which brings you back to hard to sue them?
I would assume yes, but it will all depend on how that corporate wind-down would go down. And I have zero idea how that goes, because it isn’t like TikTok assets and corporate liabilities just go poof overnight in the US on the day of the ban. They gotta be winded down somehow, and I am afraid that level of detail is significantly above my paygrade.

Also, I am not even sure that this applies here, as I couldnt even find anything about the US government suing TikTok. All I could find was that TikTok is the one that filed with the US courts to fight the bill that is getting them banned, i.e., they are the ones actually suing the US government[0].

0. https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/20...

There are many options, all depends on how important it is for the US. Freezing assets, diplomatic options, ...
The act of congress that became law doing this is Division H of this bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/815 (ctrl-f "DIVISION H" to find the relevant text)

It's not long, to quote it omitting definitions, enforcement mechanisms, timelines, and appeals process (which are also not long and I encourage you to read if you have questions as to the details):

> (Sec. 2) This division prohibits distributing, maintaining, updating, or providing internet hosting services for a foreign adversary controlled application (e.g., TikTok). However, the prohibition does not apply to a covered application that executes a qualified divestiture as determined by the President.

> Additionally, the division requires a covered foreign adversary controlled application to provide a user with all available account data (including posts, photos, and videos) at the user's request before the prohibition takes effect. The account data must be provided in a machine-readable format.

So yeah, if tiktok makes an apk available on a non-us server it looks like you should just need to download and install it (assuming the bill goes into affect and bytedance doesn't divest/the courts don't stop it). It's not a particularly broad ban, nor does it seem like it needs to be to be effective.

Looks like an app that is labeled TikTok US would suffice. And this app would recommend videos from TikTok (or any other service). And this would show ads too.
Great firewall of USA?
Will successful U.S. based TikTok entrepreneurs seek refuge overseas to save their businesses? I think some might.
Nothing of value will be lost if they do.
Great. I hope they torpedo that thing out of spite and no one gets to use the stupid e-heroin algorithm.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't like the government telling me which type of propaganda I can consume .

If I want Chinese propaganda, I should have a right to consume it. There's nothing that TikTok does that Instagram or even YouTube isn't trying to replicate .

I think this is really just a case of protectionism. Now you can make the argument that China engages in the same protectionism and if they're not letting us spread propaganda over there, we shouldn't let them do the same here .

But I used to believe that a fundamental trait of American speech was freedom. I don't care if TikTok is literally 24/7 Pro Chinese propaganda. Who was the government to tell me I don't have a right to consume that.

I think the real concern is not protectionism per se, but the ability of China to run influence operations through TikTok (as you hinted at), which to be fair is a real concern. However, "banning" TikTok is pretty shortsighted and isn't even addressing the real problem. I would ask how we got to a place where so many Americans are susceptible to propaganda.

This is coming at it from a different angle (kids' mental health), but it's still a move in the right direction:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/17/media/surgeon-general-social-...

It doesn't restrict anybody's freedom, but people who didn't give it much thought before may start putting social media into the "questionable" bucket, and those who were already wary may start putting it into the "bad" bucket. At that point it will be much easier to have a real conversation about harms associated with social media. But if that effort goes anywhere, it will take a long time.

If you're going to ban TikTok for health reasons, you just need to ban social media.

There's no way to argue that Facebook and Instagram are healthy.

The notion that China is going to run pysops via TikTok also falls flat, Facebook has already been responsible for human right violations in multiple countries. Why don't we fix our own propaganda factories first .

The only thing that I think would be okay would be a warning label on these apps, and this should go for all social media.

"Please be advised the views expressed by users on these apps may not be authentic, and are subject to influence by various parties which may not have your best interest at heart."

But at the end of the day, if you want to read or consume propaganda or misinformation you should have a right to.

Otherwise we're going down a slippery slope, so first it's because TikTok is a Chinese owned company. What's next, are we going to shut down an app because C level employees have close relationships with officials in governments we don't like ?

If you have a Russian uncle you can't be the CTO of Facebook?

You still retain the ability to load the APK and use the app, even if ByteDance withdraws from the US market.

What ByteDance should not be able to do is profiteering and monetising while aiding and abetting pro-Chinese propaganda on their platform.

Unlike China and social media, the US is not restricting individuals from consuming TikTok.

The restrictions are on platform providers and TikTok in the form of regulations.

So the government isn't banning me from buying books, but they'll go to the book store and remove all the books they don't like.
In the United States, the government acting to protect citizens from themselves is generally not a good strategy and goes pretty strongly against the grain of the culture. We can agree or disagree on whether that's good (and for the record, I don't see that as the government's job), but I think it's hard to deny that cultural reality that stands today.
I'm neither against nor in favor of TikTok but the e-heroin addiction problem is not on them.
Yeah, on principle I don't support banning a media channel like this. But an immature part of me wants the ban to be enforced so I don't have to deal with insufferable personalities of TikTok addicts any more.
What about Facebook, Instagram, et al? They're all copying the same model with reels and the like... The only winner here are the rest of the American social media, brain-dead, depressive youth factories.
I don't think it's necessarily bad for the US government to prioritize US propaganda over Chinese propaganda. It's basic game theory. The Chinese will use their power to try to influence US citizens.

I trust the government of the United States far more than I trust the government of China. Ban the hell out of this idiotic app. It will not only be good for national security but also for the national psyche.

The beginning of the next big trade war. China is a huge and growing economy. As we shut out their companies, our ability to do business will suffer. Simultaneously our companies will miss out on a massive amount of revenue when we're shut out of their markets. Eventually the world will choose whomever has the cheapest, adequate products, which we all know is China's. This will bring us into decline, and give China all the leverage it needs to become the new dominant superpower. All they need is to capture the financial markets (give it 20 years) and we'll become powerless.
It's a CCP ban, not a TikTok ban. TikTok can continue to do exactly what they've been doing, just without the CCP oversight, control and reporting.
Actually it is a ban on pro Palestinian content. No one cares about CCP access to data anymore after tiktok changed their data storage location