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Can anyone with a scientific background give an opinion about the first comment to the linked post? They say they are sceptical because "there are a number of Tropane alkaloids which are very close to cocaine and are present in other plants - especially nightshades (e.g., belladonna) - which were known to and used for various purposes by Europeans for a long time."
As you would expect, this is covered in the actual paper [0]:
> Therefore, the 3rd molecule detected in the brain tissues of our subjects, hygrine (an alkaloid present in the leaves of Erythroxylum spp. only), was essential to determine that the molecules detected in these human remains derived from the chewing of coca leaves or from leaves brewed as a tea, consistent with the historical period.
If I'm reading this right, they checked for a number of markers and one of those is found only in coca leaves.
[0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030544032...
The research group behind the paper looks reliable, they have a publication record in the area and while it's surprising they can detect metabolites (and surprising that brains were preserved from the 1600s) they seem to have done a lot of detailed work, here's some of their other related work (they also found cannabis residues in some of their material):
"Forensic toxicological analyses reveal the use of cannabis in Milano (Italy) in the 1600's (2023)"
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Forensic-toxicological...
I inherited a small hardcover handbook on the use of cocaine in medicine and the household. I don’t have it in front of me at the moment so I don’t remember the print date. I’m guessing late 1800 or early 1900. Ah. DDG to rescue, here is a version of it. https://www.thebookmerchantjenkins.com/product/coca-and-coca...
Certainly a different perspective on it from today.
Reading the complete Sherlock Holmes stories a few months ago, I also noticed how casually the frequent use of cocaine by Holmes is mentioned as a small vice, a recreational drug that is also "chemically clean", so nothing to worry about. Opium, on the other hand, is associated with disease, crime, and the criminal underworld.
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/coca-and-cocaine-their-history...
Here are other printings as well, in case anyone else wants to pick up a copy.
The ban on cocaine is kind of annoying even in its pure form, it’s a very useful local anaesthetic with good tolerance, low side effects that few people are allergic to. I have often wished it was included in some of the more advanced first aid kits, or used more widely for minor operations.
"In the United States, cocaine is regulated as a Schedule II drug under the Controlled Substances Act, meaning that it has a high potential for abuse but has an accepted medical use. While rarely used medically today, its accepted uses are as a topical local anesthetic for the upper respiratory tract as well as to reduce bleeding in the mouth, throat and nasal cavities.", from Wikipedias cocaine page. I remember septoplasty surgery using topical cocaine for example.
Cocaine is sometimes used in the US to stop nose bleeds and for blood vessel constriction generally, in addition to occasional use as a local anesthetic.
We have good local anesthetics that don't carry the same addiction risk. There's no reason to provide such a potent addictive drug at OTC.
Just take sugar instead. Cheaper, stronger and legal.
"Analyzing mummified brain tissue from two men who died at the hospital in the seventeenth century, they found evidence of coca use—the earliest ever detected outside of South America. "
There is at least one person who disagrees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henut_Taui
Cocaine in Egyptian mummies??
The difference between coca and cocaine is rather like the difference between sugar cane and refined sugar. In fact, that is quite a good analogy in more ways than one.
More like the difference between a beer and grain alcohol.
Not the subject of the article, but in the vein (so to speak) of 19th century industrial refinement processes, gin and other cheap spirits were also a really big deal, and a really big problem at the time. The temperance movement didn’t come out of nowhere. I think it’s an interesting parallel between fermented beverages and coca tea on the one hand, and cocaine and hard liquor on the other.
People somehow forgot the ether epidemic in some parts of Europe at the turn of the 20th century.
I wish the US would legalize coca leaves. Our nation's drug laws are so goddamn stupid.
Two different Popes drank Vin Mariani!
There is also this one from Italy:
https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca_Buton
(Which is a actually buyable product that appearantly is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, coke leaf import company in europe. It's a lovely liqueur)
I am disappointed this product is not still available
The article is just hilariously bad. Whatever he writes about coca and cocaine is just wrong.
The leaves contain the base. The base has a low melting point and can be smoked (crack).
Cocaine hydrochloride is created chemically from the base. It is water soluble and can snorted. Because of the PH of the blood it decomposes into the base.
Chemically there is no difference once the drug is in the blood stream
Coca-Cola still uses coca leaves in the production of its drink.
The Stepan Company plant in New Jersey is the only place in the USA authorized to import coca.
"Equality before the law" is unfortunately a farce in this country, if you didn't already know.
>"Equality before the law" is unfortunately a farce in this country, if you didn't already know.
To be fair, it's not like they're letting them do whatever they want with the plants. They use them for a very specific purpose, and I'm sure there's very strict accounting involved, as is done with factories that produce solvents and their customers.
The question is whether a new business could be started that had a legitimate use for coca and could get a similar exception extended to it.
> Coca-Cola still uses coca leaves in the production of its drink.
Is this actually true? A quick search gives me a lot of sources like "Natural News" and similarly dubious sources. What do they actually use the Coca leaves for?
Amusingly, Red Bull famously got in trouble over trace amounts of cocaine were found in their Simply Cola during govt certification process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_Simply_Cola#Cocaine_c...
>"Equality before the law" is unfortunately a farce in this country, if you didn't already know.
This specific case seems like it's more about the law grandfathering in an existing product vs whatever conspiracy theory you have in mind.
It’s literally in the name, I’d be disappointed if it didn’t have coca in it. It definitely doesn’t have cocaine in it anymore though. I bet that sold like hotcakes when it did though.
>As you can see, the Times was not the only news outlet to be confused about the distinction between cocaine and coca
Unfortunately, the author of this article is the one who is confused. Cocaine is the name of the alkaloid present in the coca leaf, much like the coffee bean contains caffeine. If they were using coca leaf, they were using cocaine.
TFA literally already says what you said. They're making a reasonable distinction between chewing coca leaves for mild stimulant effect and huffing a fat rail of the pure stuff.
It gives the wrong idea to say these 17th century people were doing cocaïne.
So when you drink Coca-Cola, you're drinking cocaine?
Stephen Maturin switches from opium to coca leaves about halfway through the Master and Commander series (around 1800). Ensuring a steady supply of the leaves becomes a recurring theme as is his sharing of their wonders with the various scientific personalities he comes across.
Coca tea is very underrated. Too bad its probably impossible to legally buy outside of south America
“I was making frequent use of cocaine at that time ... I had been the first to recommend the use of cocaine, in 1885, and this recommendation had brought serious reproaches down on me.”
“... a big wild man who has cocaine in his body.”
― Sigmund Freud
Oh, come on, you can't add that last quote without the rest of the context!
"Woe to you, my Princess, when I come. I will kiss you quite red and feed you till you are plump. And if you are forward, you shall see who is the stronger, a gentle little girl who doesn't eat enough, or a big wild man who has cocaine in his body" - a letter to his fiance.
Anyone here ever actually try coca leaves? Going to guess its effects are somewhere between coffee and cocaine
I used to drink coca tea a lot when I lived in Argentina where you get it in the supermarket. It's around on par of nicotine as an appetite suppressant for me, as a stimulant I feel caffeine and mate are better for the "stay awake" but coca tea is better for "zoning in", with less of anxiety driving but it's a more single tasked high where interruptions are harder to deal with than with caffeine. Like if I have a lot of meetings I prefer coffee and if I have to code for four hours I prefer coca tea. I used to rotate coffee, mate, and coca tea as a daily driver and having something else on the rotation may have been helping more than that something else being coca tea.
I used them while hiking in Peru.
It's better than caffeine, because it comes with a mild euphoria. Nothing crazy, just enough to have energy and not feel like hiking at altitude is work.
When I hike with coffee I just feel determined to finish. With Coca it just felt natural to keep walking.
Had a hippy friend that discovered coca leaves while hiking in Peru. She packed a bunch to bring back with her to show us her great new discovery for natural energy.
Apparently they already knew about these new things called 'coca leaves' at the border because they took them away from her.
This is a true story. Friggin hippies man.
I think it's pretty common for visitors to Macha Picchu to receive a cup of coca tea upon arrival, for altitude sickness. The people I talked to said it was like a cup of coffee.
Had a lot of them chewed or in tea in Bolivia and it's pretty close to a caffeine buzz, it's very, very mild.
I brewed tea out of the leaves and also chewed them when hiking in Peru. Stimulant level-wise it felt similar to green tea. Maybe also a slight euphoria when chewing them but it's definitely still way less potent than a coffee (atleast for me).
The only interesting side effect was that both my wife and I experienced tingling feet when combining coca leaves with acetazolamide, the altitude sickness meds we were taking (tingling feet is apparently a side effect of those meds). I wonder if on some level it does have a similar mechanism for altitude sickness?
It’s extremely mild, not even as strong as coffee. It takes 1/2 a kilo of coca leaves to make 1g of cocaine!
I often wonder why nobody has CRISPR-ed the genes from the Coca plant that make the alkaloids into yeast by now… given the $100bn market you’d expect someone to give this or another process a go.
A lot of stores in Peruvian Andes sell concentrated coca leaf extract as candies. They help on higher altitude hikes. Theres one in particular that is as strong as a chemical extract.
Actually quite effective as an alternative to ADHD medicine.
I bought a bag of those very cheaply in Bolivia cca 8 years ago, locals used some sort of chalky 'activator' with it, so did I. And most if not all locals used it, ie in Potosi mines it was basically mandatory. Heck you could buy a stick of dynamite like from old westerns in random stalls across the city.
I got some anesthetic effects in my mouth in the place I kept chewing them. Wasn't checking whether it made me more alert, even coffee normally doesn't have much effect on me and I drink it for the taste.
Other than that, 0 effect. But I've never used any variant of cocaine so can't even compare.
Coca tea is ubiquitous in Peru. Morning, noon, and night. It's on a par with mate or green tea in other parts of the world. Mostly harmless.
The leaves are readily available everywhere, like right beside the chewing gum at the checkout in supermarkets and the like. I tried chewing some to help offset altitude problems; it didn't help with the altitude problems but it made half my face go numb and other than that, nothing. I understand the local combine it with limestone or something to release different alkaloids but I did not.
I'm sure it's dose / brew strength dependent, but the coca tea I had definitely had a noticable effect, but felt milder than a regular (caffiene) black tea to me. Much milder than a coffee. Mind you I'm quite caffeine sensitive, so if you YMMV.
I ordered some from a Bolivian website when I was a teen. I chewed them a couple times at work while doing landscaping. The closest thing I could compare it to is a nicotine buzz.
> Was recreational or medicinal coca use something that was happening all over Europe in the 1600s?
I'd think we'd already know, because there would be historical (literature and records) references.
> As David Courtwright writes in his book Forces of Habit, “factories did for drugs what canning did to vegetables. They democratized them. It became easier, cheaper, and faster for the masses to saturate their brains with chemicals.”
This is a really interesting use of the word "democratize." I've seen it used in many other contexts (usually in a business sense), and some have been more ominous than others.