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by theanonymousone·1y ago·view on hn ↗
Automatic transmission is probably the only indispensable "feature" I look for in a new car and that I'm willing to pay extra for. How some people prefer manual is probably one of the mysteries I'll take to grave with myself.

Edit: By prefer, I mean having the choice and choosing manual, obviously. Choosing manual because it is cheaper does not count.

21 comments
They're more fun. You're actively operating the machinery instead of it operating itself. That probably doesn't sound fun to you, but it is to me, and I'm not alone.

Until recently, manuals were also more efficient than automatics and had more gears. That was a big factor for performance cars and places with high fuel prices, but is no longer true. Now, automatics are more efficient and usually have more gears, so people who want manuals on new cars just want the additional control or engagement.

Manual for me is fun on the track but hell in traffic.
You'd need to drive the automaic in semi automatic mode for it to be as efficient, right?
A manual transmission is fun. An automatic is boring.

With a manual tranny, manual brakes, manual steering, and manual suspension you feel connected to the car and the road, and it's just a joy. It's even more fun when you learn to double clutch the downshift, and work on doing a perfect downshift and entry into the turn.

With practice, you can drive a stick smoother than an auto, though most never bother.

The times I prefer an automatic are in stop-go traffic, and starting out uphill. I'd also prefer an automatic in a luxury car or SUV. But for a muscle car or sports car, stick all the way!

You can't win a drag race with a stick, racing auto trans will always shift faster. But there's no skill in the latter, and so it's no fun.

I recently took up dirt bike riding. I was repeatedly offered an electric bike, which didn't need shifting. Phooey. I wanted the gas bike with the manual shifter. And I was right, managing the engine and gear adds much fun.

Ones fun is somebody elses tedium.
Been driving manual all my life and having now a DSG automatic.

I love it, fuel efficiency is on par with manual. There are things that I don’t like, specifically: - Driving in traffic: If I’m inching forward, transmission suffer because it does continuously half-clutch. Much more control with a manual. - Mountain driving: I usually set it again to manual to be able to brake with the engine when going up and meeting a curve. Interestingly, it does fine going downhill. - tricky terrain: it changes wildly depending on the traction you are encountering, so manual mode helps keeping a constant rhythm and speed when traction is not optimal (snow, mud, etc)

I have to admit though that the automatic is way faster than me at changing gears, which helps keeping a constant acceleration and avoid head bobbing.

> I have to admit though that the automatic is way faster than me at changing gears, which helps keeping a constant acceleration and avoid head bobbing.

That's because a DSG gearbox has two clutches. It is basically a traditional gearbox with one clutch connected to the odd gears and one to the even gears. The system selects the next gear according to the revs of the engine and does all the physical shifting in advance. The actual gear change is then only disengaging one clutch while engaging the other one. You can overlap this so the engine continously delivers torque to the wheels. Thus, no head bobbing.

I used cars with automatic and manual transmissions and I prefer manual. I just don't see any benefit of using automatic transmission. Manual transmission is cheaper. Manual transmission is simpler and drastically cheaper to repair. Cars with manual transmission can be towed. Automatic transmission often makes a wrong choice, so I often need to override the selection of gear. Using manual transmission is not hard or exhausting. Also automatic transmission for some reason does not want to use engine as a brake, so I need to push my brakes more often, with manual transmission I rarely have to reach brake because I can just release acceleration and it'll slow down well, I only need to brake to make a full stop.
You're comparing an ICE-engine Automatic with an ICE-engine Manual.

An EV doesn't have a transmission in the conventional sense (1). It's just a final drive from the motor to the differential (which you'd have in any conventional ICE gearbox anyway). The motor is always connected, and can drive from zero speed to maximum in the same gear. It's a totally difference experience to an 'automatic' ICE car as there are no shifts. It's like a part of the car is just no longer there - and for good reason as electric motors can provide torque over a much wider range of speeds than an ICE engine can.

The gearbox in an ICE car is only there to cover for the inadequacy of ICE engines. It's missing from EVs because it's not needed.

Life-long petrolhead here (driven as an amateur in the WRC for reference). Bought my first EV a few years ago, and never going back. It makes zero sense for most people to have an ICE car now. If you've not driven one, reserve judgement about the transmission as most people I know who've driven mine have found it a revelation.

(1) with the exception of the Porsche Taycan AFAIK.

> I just don't see any benefit of using automatic transmission

Not having to deal with gear shifting is a huge benefit for me. It takes out one non-trivial element from the whole driving experience and lets me focus more on all the other things you need to do while driving. It’s also more relaxing, especially combined with adaptive cruise control. And I never worry I will mess up the when starting from a full stop and have to restart the car. Especially when starting from an uphill.

From what you described you’re the type of person that likes to have full control over the car and how it behaves, and that’s totally fine. But many of us don’t, we just care to get from point A to B with as little friction as possible. Sure, it’s more expensive to get and maintain, but that’s a price I’m fully willing to pay.

How can it be cheaper than not having a transmission at all in an EV?
> Automatic transmission often makes a wrong choice, so I often need to override the selection of gear.

That sounds suspect. In the past 20 years I’ve found it makes far less errors than when I drive manual transmission over the same time. The set points just differ.

The curve for engine breaking is also not absent, just different I regularly release the accelerator in an automatic transmission, and it will slow down to a stop

> I just don't see any benefit of using automatic transmission.

I used to think like that, but driving a manual tranny in one of the most congested cities in the world, with bad hip joints (the left one the worst) at the age of 50, it takes it's toll.

So I bought a Chinese EV a couple of months ago and couldn't be happier. No more clutching a thousand times a day was a huge QOL improvement.

Even if I go back to ICE, it would be an automatic. I don't drive for fun anymore, I just want to get to where I'm going with the least ammount of effort possible.

The worst feature of manual transmission is being stuck in a traffic jam and constantly pressing clutch pedal and shifting in and out of the 1st gear. Everything else is non issue, this is painful.
> I just don't see any benefit of using automatic transmission

It is automatic

I have better uses for my time and attention than matching rpms and flicking a lever, especially in stop and go traffic

> Cars with manual transmission can be towed

Automatic cars can be towed, just read the manual (for reference: https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/22275/can-a-ca... )

I had to replace a handful of clutches, but never had any maintenance done on automatic transmissions (having owned 10+ manual, and 5+ automatic). For just the money I would opt for automatic, let alone the performance that is much better than with manual gear nowadays.
Automatics are more complex and harder to repair, easier breaks.

Damages that would give a manual gearbox 'personality', might make the automatic refuse to engage gear at all.

The accelerator padel in practice also becomes a shift down gear button. So you need to keep your feet at a more specific position of the pedal.

When towing trailers the automatic gear selection is usually bad.

You can't start the engine by rolling it and release the clutch when low on batteries or the starter motor is somewhat broken. I would say this is the biggest drawback of automatics.

On the other hand, automatics are nice in queues.

I remember my friend had a 70s Dodge Dart (Slant 6 automatic) and his starter went out. His father pushed the car with his truck up to 35mph and then he put it in drive...it push started. But yeah...typically that is a very bad idea for a number of reasons. Safety being a big one...plus, on a lot of automatics the pump is driven from the input shaft...so when coasting in neutral there is often no lubrication.
Manual transmission is harder to learn, and requires more work, but also gives the driver more control on the car. When driving an automatic car I always feel like I trade driving control in favor of convenience, and that makes me anxious whenever something happens that require driver action.
Because automatics can feel slow and laggy depending on the terrain, because they can only respond to load rather than anticipate it. In the UK and EU there are lots of hills and narrow winding roads where you notice this the most; whereas if you are mostly driving on the flat automatic probably feels no different. It's also more noticeable in small cars with small engines (also more common over here out of practicality) where using the right gear at just the right time is more important if you don't want to end up stuck crawling up a hill.

Most EVs are single speed transmission due to the wide range torque curve, so manual vs auto is kind of a moot point for all but very high performance vehicles anyway... Which is why this honda thing is a total gimmick, i'd happily give up manual gearbox when there is no performance and efficiency difference.

I have no data to back it up, but this is why a lot of people living in the Alps supposedly still drive cars with a manual gearbox, although generally sales of new, automatic cars are now ahead of manual ones, even in Germany.
>How some people prefer manual is probably one of the mysteries I'll take to grave with myself.

When I find myself thinking like that I try to come up with generous analogies to try and position myself in a similar mindset. With manual transmission the advantage seems to be fine grained control over the engine at the cost of more complexity and additional work. This fine grained control may be imperceptible or totally unnecessary for some people. However, I run Linux for similar reasons and enjoy tinkering with it. I also tend to prefer tools that target power users at the cost of complexity. So, even if I'm not a gearhead myself, I can easily understand the preference for manual transmission by others.

At least in Europe there have been cases where automatic transmission costs an extra 20% in the price of the car.

For several people this is an important decision.

So some people don't "prefer" manual. It just made sense at the time they bought the car.

Yes. I fully get that, living in Europe myself (Isn't 20% a bit too much by the way?)
I live in France, so in a place where manual was the norm.

I hate it compared to automatic. Automatic is so much more comfortable (in my Toyota Hybrid RAV4 at least), driving in yraffic us much easier etc.

I will never buy a manual car again.

> I will never buy a manual car again.

Me after I accidentally ended up buying an automatic car for the first time.

Using an auto feels like using a mobility aid. It's not fun so therefore it's something I'm forced to use. I don't transport heavy goods and I'm not disabled, why would I be using a mobility aid? Wall-E made a whole lot more sense the first time I drove an auto.

Having said that, manuals are harder and I have noticed people are less willing to give up something that took time and effort to learn, so take my thoughts with a pinch of salt.

It's about mechanical empathy and greater control. Mechanical empathy is where you just really know a machine with character, and know how to handle its foibles, and it's like an extension of you. Where earlier automatic transmissions were less efficient, there was greater efficiency to be had from a manual transmission, but since dual-clutch automatics, that's less true. Even So, an automatic transmission can't know what you're thinking (yet), and so can't down/upshift when you want it to.

It's like running Linux. At some point it's just another OS, so what difference does it make? And for some, it doesn't make a difference. For others, having more control, and being able to dig into the guts of a desktop Linux system and replace whatever you want let's them feel more connected to the computer, making it less of a mysterious box that operates on magic and black smoke, and more of a predictable machine.

That first part puts it really well.

I almost never know what an auto will do if I put my foot to the floor. And often just 50% it interprets as you wanting to floor it and shifts down 2 gears which is often an overreaction given the car's torque and power.

I dislike the gamble at roundabouts too. They're everywhere in the UK and they're busy - you often pull out in front of cars where there is a gap and you need to know your car will do exactly what you need it to do.

Also start-stop is trickier to control in an auto and it's linked to how hard you brake rather than the clutch pedal (it's getting harder to disable start-stop in cars these days). I never want the engine to turn off at the entry to a roundabout but if you brake too hard, it will

That said if I am regularly doing 100s of miles on motorways I absolutely love an auto

> It's like running Linux.

To me it's more like "running your own-compiled GNU Hurd Kernel", probably on your own-assembled kit :D

Linux has very "tangible" use cases, far beyond wanting the machine "be an extension of yourself". No?

It's even more fun driving a stick when you put the machine together yourself, and know every nut, bolt, shaft and gear.
You’re the first person to verbalize how i feel about operating machinery, something I've always been unable to do and feel awkward about.

What are some hobbies you enjoy?

I learned to drive with a manual transmission so I'd feel comfortable driving any car in Europe, where manual transmissions are far more common. The transition was stressful but after a few hours it became easier and after a few days, it became second nature—just as easy as driving an automatic.

Today, my own car has a manual transmission, which I prefer for the added control. It lets me use different levels of engine braking on downhill stretches (very useful depending on where you live) and manage my speed more precisely in heavy traffic.

I moved to Europe after driving in Australia where automatic is the norm. Most people in Europe should not be driving a manual. Almost daily I'll see and hear people make basic mistakes when driving. It's baffling why they stick with manuals.
This is one thing I enjoy so much about my Kia Ev6.

For accelerating, I just use the go-pedal (which I still call the "gas pedal"). It gives me precise gentle control for normal driving around town, especially with passengers, or immediate zoom-zoom when I need it in a traffic situation or just for fun. I don't have to think about gears or any of that.

For slowing down, there two paddles on the steering wheel to select the regen level, just like the paddle shifters on some gas cars. A higher regen level is like a lower gear that gives you more engine braking.

Regen level 0 is like coasting. Level 1 is like being in "drive" with an automatic transmission. 2 and 3 are like downshifting further. There is also "auto-regen" and "i-pedal". I tried them all and found level 2 is my sweet spot.

If I'm going downhill and need to slow down even more, I can either go to level 3 or just use the brake pedal. If I do use the brake pedal, I won't be engaging the friction brakes. It just tells the car to pump energy back into the battery, unless I really mash down for an emergency stop.

I’m convinced learning on an automatic first and moving to manual from that is the right way to learn. Clutch control and gear shifts are extra mental load for new drivers, and pretty natural for experienced drivers.

In a car I learned manual first and it was a mission, on a bike I learned automatic first and switched to manual from that, and it was much easier.

What I love about electric is that there is normally no transmission. Automakers realized it was cheaper and simpler to simply ditch the transmission in favor of a stronger motor.
> How some people prefer manual is probably one of the mysteries I'll take to grave with myself.

Fun facts, the new high performance Toyota GR Corolla has a new automatic gear that's proven faster than the manual version.

I really hope similar things happening for programming languages with GC since D language got a lot of flak by making GC as the default.

To rephrase your perplexity, how some people prefer manual memory management is probably one of the mysteries I'll take to grave with myself.

More like " how some people prefer manual memory management for non-performance-critical applications".
According to the press release, the GR DAT is not "proven faster than manual", but is rather supposed to be competitive with dual-clutch transmissions.
Same reason I don’t like FSD even though as an engineer it’s cool technology: I enjoy driving.

It’s like cooking your own meal versus going to a restaurant. I enjoy cooking a lot.

You 'murican? Anyway, you feel closer to the machine with a good manual (e.g. MX-5), it's for sports cars having the pleasure of driving as main purpose. It's also cheaper, lighter and more reliable.

Auto should be used for all the other cars (including performance cars, where you want your mind focused on stuff other than shifting; true sequential is king there, though).

In the US, it's often more expensive to get a manual if you are at all picky about options - very few are made, so gearheads end up scouring the entire country to find a car in the right color, right options package, etc. You might end up with another $2000 in shipping, and the dealers have little incentive to move the cars off the lot (they don't have many if any, and some manual-transmission lover will pay near sticker).

I've driven manual cars but never owned one. Other than transmission fluid changes (rare), though, I've never had to fix an auto transmission. They're pretty reliable. My current one is at about 260k km, 24 years old (previous owner burned out engine and transmission at ~100k km on car by not using towing mode to tow, so car has more on it than that).

Isn't it an actually American thing to "feel closer to the machine"?
Better fuel efficiency for one. And I, for the time being, am much better at anticipating the required power output and optimal gear 5-10 seconds ahead.

And of course for a lot of driving (highways) theres very little shifting anyway.

I prefer it for better control of the shift points and I have an admittedly unfounded theory that manuals are more reliable and longer lasting than automatic transmissions.
Not having an automatic transmission means there are less ways in which a manufacturer can screw up your car's performance in the name of emissions.

This is obviously less relevant in America where you can still buy fast cars without being murdered by taxes.

Stick shifts are the original fidget spinners. I loved mine. I'd happily have another.