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Please visit people when they are still alive.
My aunt was alone for the last three years of her live, up to 94 years old. She had almost no visitors, and was not able to go out by herself. I went there about every week, and was always the only visitor.
Then came the funeral, with well over 400 people there, and around 200 people at the coffee table after the funeral. And I was like: Where the hell were you guys the past three years? She was alone (after her husband died) and most of you never visited her since (and no they were not living far away or unable to visit).
Go to the funeral yes, but don't wait until.
^ this. Also, don't allow yourself to be put off by the idea that you don't know what to say or whatever. Just go. If you think it's hard for you it's doubly hard for the person who is dying and noone is visiting them because they don't know what to say.
My cousin was in hospital dying of cancer. I spoke to my mum and she said she wasn't sure what to say etc, so she ended up not going. I went. I said to him "hey this situation really sucks". We had a great conversation. He died. I'm really glad I went.
Fast forward a few years and my uncle (his dad) was in hospital dying of cancer. I spoke to my mum and she said she wasn't sure what to say etc. I said "you remember what happened last time. Just go." She went[1]. It was a good way to bring finality and say goodbye to her brother and she was really glad she went.
[1] I also went separately but that's slightly beside the point
>Please visit people when they are still alive. [...] Go to the funeral yes, but don't wait until.
Thank you for bringing this up. To add to that ... sometimes, circumstances (i.e. long distances) dictate that only 1 of those trips can be made and they may have to choose.
I had a family member with a terminal illness and a friend of the family from out of state decided to visit 2 months before the end to say goodbyes. They were elderly and on a fixed income so they could only budget the money for 1 trip. As a result, they had to skip the funeral. From my standpoint, they made the correct choice of prioritizing the conversation with a living person instead of attending a funeral.
One of my best memories of college: I was going to a tech school that was just down the street from the nursing home my grandpa was at. Most family were busy so my mom pressured me to go spend time with him. Initially I thought it would suck but after a few times, both the nursing staff and a few patients near my grandpa knew me, it was like getting a minor, second home right next to school. I would go to my classes, get my homework, then drive a few minutes down the road and spend hours there doing the homework, playing games, what have you.
I got so much time with him just before he passed. It was truly a blessing, even though he was already a huge part of my childhood, to get one last hurrah before I entered adulthood and he... well, took the next step.
I'm not a religious person, I don't honestly think there's an afterlife, and on this point my parents disagree. Maybe they would've made more time to visit him if they weren't sure he was going to a better place and they'd see him again.
People didn't go to visit her while being alive because they genuinely didn't care about her, or didn't care enough to bother to visit.
They showed up in a funeral not because of her, but because they were afraid of what others would say about them if they didn't show up.
This is the sad reality of human behaviour in this day and age.
As a corollary, if a person you're responsible for "goes dark" socially (due to dementia, unable to go out anymore, moved to nursing home etc), do let their friendly social circle know (friends, neighbors) that the person would still be happy about visitors.
I've seen this with a relative with dementia - many people just weren't aware that she had no contact with them anymore due to this.
Reading the whole thing, I think the author would agree.
"Go to the funeral" isn't just about the funeral. It's a specific example of "if you have a chance to show up for someone, show up for them: even if (maybe _especially_ if) it's awkward or inconvenient".
1000x this. I was fortunate & got to spend the terminal 3mo of my father's life staying with him. He didn't want a funeral at all. His perspective, "If you can't visit me while I'm still alive & have time, then don't bother." Seeing his friends & family visit was touching.
> Where the hell were you guys the past three years?
Maybe they were there when you weren't there and they're asking the same question about you? Maybe your aunt never really thought to bring up that so-and-so had come to visit while you were there, so then as far as you know, nobody came to visit? Maybe they called, sure it's not the same as visiting but it's something.
It's true though, as humans we tend to not think about things and other people until they are gone. Don't be angry and upset, if anything, pity them for not having the time that you had.
> Please visit people when they are still alive.
Funerals are for the living, it's strengthening your friendships and relationships.
This is the point the article is trying to make. Parties and gatherings matter, don't confuse your birthday, Brit Milah or funeral being about you. It's selfish not have these ceremonies, they are about community and others.
It's a long road getting society more community focused again.
I had a friend who died young, I was young as well. I went to his funeral and there was an opportunity to speak about him and our memories of him. No one stood up to speak.
It was awful. I wanted to stand up and say he was a good friend, and to say I would miss him, but I didn't.
I've regretted that ever since - 30 years now, and I think about it frequently.
As a kid, I went to so many funerals, I remember I started somewhat liking it.
I grew up in Eastern Europe. My grandmother was a devoted christian with a lot of community work around church events. As a kid my parents would leave me often with her for the holidays. She took me with her to pretty much every funeral that was happening in the town, since she had to attend.
It sounds crazy but these events were large social gatherings, people bringing food, chatting. Often other kids would be there as well. Someone had died, but it wasn't necessarily a sad event. It was people being there for the deceased one and their relatives. There was also something like the "crying group" - that would be old ladies crying for the deceased one as an act of support of the relatives rather than expressing genuine feelings. The coffin would sometimes be placed on a trailer towed by a tractor to the graveyard. The "crying group" would hop onto the trailer and they would cry around the coffin. They were really good. I realize how strange this may sound, but it was just the way it was back then.
None of these funerals could prepare me for the loss of my 2 grandmothers. Still, without meaning it in a disrespectful way, death is an important part of our life-experience, and even as a kid, I'm thankful to have had seen it that often and in a non-violent way.
> In my humdrum life, the daily battle hasn't been good versus evil. It's hardly so epic. Most days, my real battle is doing good versus doing nothing.
Wow. This part really resonated with me. I will try to keep this in mind.
This is a very Irish thing. Funerals in Ireland are always well-attended and going to a funeral - even of someone you don't know - is important in the community (see this recent news article, for example[0]). I notice the author's surname is Sullivan.
As my grandmother liked to repeat: "If you don't go to someone's funeral, they won't come to yours."
[0] https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/crowd-shows-up-to-funera...)
It’s also a matter of regret minimization.
9+ times out of 10 when I’m on the fence about going to a major life event and go, I’m glad I did. Can’t think of the last thing I regretted going to.
I’ve certainly missed some like graduations I regret not making it to.
Funerals are towards the top of the list of big life events and I’ve never regretted one.
The only regret I have in life (I'm in my mid-50s) is not attending the funeral of my friend's Mom. I didn't know her, so I figured I didn't have to go (I was in my early 20's, not that my age excuses anything). Another friend made me realize that I should've been there for my friend. After that, my friend moved away and things were never the same, no matter how hard I tried to keep in touch. Ever since, I always go to the wake/funeral.
You should go to the funeral if you think the right thing is to go to the funeral
You should do it for yourself, out of respect for the person who died and respect for the loved ones remaining. Not out of societal obligation
The corollary to that is there are plenty of times where the right thing is to not go to the funeral. If you lack those things.
There have been times I don’t go the funeral. Because the dead person was a horrible person. When people asked, I said exactly that and many times the response I got was “man I wish I had not gone”
I think I won't go to my parents funeral (when the time comes).
I don't see the value of standing next to their corpses.
I didn't go to my grandma funeral, I don't regret it. I regret not having had deeper relationship with her.
Same with my parents. Will have many regrets, but I believe not saying goobye to their corpses won't be one.
Wholeheartedly agree with both the nominal and underlying advice here.
Doing the right thing all the time is painful, tedious and can cost you. But doing the wrong thing will cost you too. Both compound.
The literal advice about going to the funeral is about showing up for people who meant something to you. There are only a few special times in your life when you get to see a large chunk of other people's important people:
* graduations
* coming of age ceremonies
* weddings
* funerals
Being there gives you a special chance to know the person better. Just do it.
Larger message about doing the thing you really should do aside, ever since my parents dissuaded me from going to my grandfather's funeral (a man that I loved and respected but who's funeral came at an "inconvenient" time in my life) I have greatly regretted it. Not going burned itself into my mind and since that time I have never missed a funeral. Even for someone I only knew a little or hadn't seen in many years. If I had a connection with them, thought fondly of them, I make every effort to go. It just feels like the right thing to do.
Personal opinion: I find funerals to be a waste of time and money.
Especially, coming from a culture where they are a big event. People spend enormous money on funerals —- money that they wouldn’t help you with while you are alive and struggling.
Maybe attending one in a less flamboyant culture will change my mind.
But I wish more people in general don’t wait for terminal events to do or say nice things.
Big life events are always worth a visit if you get invited, and you always learn something from the mix of people who attend. Whether it's a funeral, wedding, baptism, and so on.
Does this person have friends from childhood? Do his friends come from the same place, or all sorts of places? Do they know each other, or does he have a lot of singletons there?
Who considers themselves close family? Second cousins? Or did their cousins not even come?
How well represented are various social classes?
I always find these things super interesting when I go to one of these.
You gotta go to people’s funerals, otherwise they won’t come to yours — Yogi Berra
There's been a lot more reflective, humanity stories on HN.
Or maybe I'm just noticing more.
I've been on HN since 2007.
There was that story a few weeks ago with the aging parents and their daughter that took a picture of them waving goodbye, each year she visited.
I like these stories. It gives me pause and to wonder what it's all been for.
Probably for my kids. My second oldest (9) loves creating levels in Geometry Dash. He'll probably be an engineer.
He asks great questions. He can teach himself new tricks from YouTube videos. He asks for critical feedback on his levels. That's a good start.
I'm just rambling.
I agree with this completely.
A small but important suggested addition: if it's someone who's funeral you would go to, tell that person now what they mean to you. Then they can hear it while they are still alive.
It is not a given that you will have enough time to tell them later.
Sound advice. Conversely: always have a funeral.
I know several people who expressed a wish not to have a funeral. Sometimes this wish stems from a desire not to be an inconvenience, or a sense of guilt or shame that one's life was not well-lived. Sometimes, simply the view that funerals don't matter, so why bother.
In every case, I think this desire is mistaken. The need to mourn the dead is an instinct older than our species itself, and in dismissing it we wound the people closest to us.
If you're the sort of person to whom the idea of skipping your own funeral sounds tempting, I kindly ask you for the sake of your loved ones that you reconsider.
I pretty much always go. The only time I missed a funeral was during the pandemic for one of my teachers, and my wife was due at any moment. His funeral was well attended.
For one particular funeral, it was for a childhood friend who I had lost touch with. One of the photos, in the rotation, was from a bus trip where I said, "hey, give me your camera." It was touching. His brother showed up at my mother's funeral a few years later.
Funerals aren't for the one who passed they're for the ones left behind. Be there for the ones left behind and remember you are one of the ones left behind.
A corollary of this is “Always visit when a baby is born.”
(In the first few months, if not at the hospital)
I have noticed my love and respect for my friends who never visited after our newborn declined significantly, and it has never been the same. Does anyone have a similar experience?
A slight modification for my own philosophy: I always go to the wake/memorial.
The funeral (burial/internment) is usually for close family only. I will go, if it is appropriate, but usually, not. Sometimes, the funeral mass is more open than the actual burial.
I had a friend propose that we hire a woman and a child to stand a hundred yards away from the burial of a [male] friend, and leave before anyone can approach them, to add some mystery to the event.
Every time you go to a funeral you sit a bit closer to the front.
I seriously regret not seeing my aunt when she was dying, though I went to the funeral.
A memory ill never forget though is the time I went to a funeral for a childhood friends sister - it was extremely sad as you would expect, but her brother (my childhood friend) saw a big group of us there and he said "I cant believe it, everyone came out" and I could see he was really happy.
When the article said "do it for the family" it really hit me, and in hindsight its obvious - we were there for them, not the deceased, and it meant A LOT to them to see us there.
As somebody whose dad died last night, this one hits hard.
Totally agree.
In my culture (Berber), each time any of your relatives gets sick, you also must visit him/her and bring something with you for him/her (usually nice food/fruits and/or money).
I declined to attend one of my grandfathers’ funerals. I did not consider him a good man and did not feel love for him while he was alive. I have never regretted it.
I'm surprised in all this discussion not to see the distinction between a wake and a funeral.
The advice I've heard is, go to a wake to support those who are grieving, go to a funeral to grieve yourself.
(For this reason, the wake is held at more "convenient" hours.)
Do others make this distinction? Is the practice of holding a separate wake a regional/cultural thing?
Idk. Nobody ever invited me and I don't know anyone closely enough for even knowing if anyone in their family died. I'll be fifty soon, and, I have an impression that the only funeral I'll ever attend will be my own, if there even will be a funeral :|
> "Always go to the funeral" means that I have to do the right thing when I really, really don't feel like it. I have to remind myself of it when I could make some small gesture, but I don't really have to and I definitely don't want to. I'm talking about those things that represent only inconvenience to me, but the world to the other guy. You know, the painfully under-attended birthday party. The hospital visit during happy hour. The Shiva call for one of my ex's uncles. In my humdrum life, the daily battle hasn't been good versus evil. It's hardly so epic. Most days, my real battle is doing good versus doing nothing.
This hinges on your level of self-importance.
The best arrangement I've witnessed (for family friends from my hometown) was a private funeral for the close family members, followed 6 weeks later by a memorial service in a nice rented space with a slideshow going, drinks, and a general air of a big reunion.
The large amount of time between the two events was better for the family, who didn't feel the same sting of fresh grief. There was no awkwardness, either. Everyone could remember the deceased in a way that she would have appreciated - old memories, laughter, and positivity.
That was a beautiful piece. Well written, concise.
My grandmother was the only relative of that generation that lived in the same city when I was young — the only funeral I went to.
But as an adult, having my mother recently die, it was my turn to more or less head up the funeral. I too was touched by, in this case, relatives of my wife that showed up. They didn't know my mom from Adam but came anyway.
I agree with the article, and I find many of the comments here insightful. Relationships with some of my old school adversaries were healed when they attended my son's funeral.
The movie Charade is sort of about the bad effects of a poorly attended funeral. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8FA5zBHiFA
"By the time I was 16, I had been to five or six funerals"
May be an Irish specific thing but I probably had been to 16 by the time I was five or six.
People don’t think about death enough. Be ready to go at any moment. Are you at work? Take a moment, and pretend your partner, mom, dad, or child’s last time speaking to you forever was the last time you chatted.
What comes to mind? Do you wish you had said/done something? Take action before it’s too late.
In my opinion, matters of respect and kindness are given more than due consideration at death and perhaps only then for most people. Sure, go to the funeral and pay your respect, show how much they meant to you, but perhaps, do it much before. Do it way before death is even a thing.
Ecclesiastes 7:4 "The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth."
HN has never made me cry before, but here I am crying. This is really a wonderful article and discussion. Makes me appreciate this community even more.
Yes. And always go to the wedding.
It is crushingly disappointing to me how many of the comments here are about funerals. When the point of the article has nothing to do with funerals.
The thesis is this paragraph and I think it's quite striking and important
> "Always go to the funeral" means that I have to do the right thing when I really, really don't feel like it. I have to remind myself of it when I could make some small gesture, but I don't really have to and I definitely don't want to. I'm talking about those things that represent only inconvenience to me, but the world to the other guy. You know, the painfully under-attended birthday party. The hospital visit during happy hour. The Shiva call for one of my ex's uncles. In my humdrum life, the daily battle hasn't been good versus evil. It's hardly so epic. Most days, my real battle is doing good versus doing nothing.