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> EmacsConf feels like a nice, cozy get-together where people share the cool things they've been working on and thinking about.

Emacsconf was indeed executed great this year, and nice and cozy were my feelings too. It's interesting to compare and contrast the ambience between Emacsconf and that of the other editors' like neovim conf and the release "parties" of Visual Studio Code and Jetbrains.

I wouldn't believe how well it was run if I wasn't there. Sacha is a powerhouse, the amount of code she wrote in elisp to make this conference happen with the quality it did is just amazing.

Thanks Sacha!

Awwwww, thanks! =)

You know how it is... It's fun to write Emacs Lisp to automate things, smoothen my workflow, reduce the risk of mistakes. 15 minutes here, 5 minutes there... Micro-improvements add up!

I had no idea that there was a NeovimConf! It's kind of a shame that it's so low in the search rankings that searching directly for it seemed to turn up only hits for Neovim configuration files, so I hope that I may be forgiven for linking here: https://neovimconf.live .
honestly the community Emacs has really sets it apart, and it's a piece of software where the GPL makes sense and shines and this is super clear in the Emacs community.

It gives me hope for the longevity of the editor, and indeed, in the short ten years I've been a casual user it has only gotten better.

Long live the Emacs community

Emacs is good because the barrier to entry is so high. Anyone who sees elisp and doesn't run for the hills is the type of person who has interesting ideas.
What was different about it compared to the neovim conf?
People can't seem to find an exit.
I dipped into NeovimConf since I like learning from other conferences and other editors. People's workflow videos are always cool. The Emacs community merrily assimilates lots of great ideas from Neovim, and it's great to see ideas flow the other way sometimes. I tuned in last year too, and I particularly liked how they had a number of NeovimConf talks covering other editors like Helix so that people in the NeovimConf community could pick up inspiration. I like the way TJ and ThePrimeagen keep the conversation going through streams throughout the year. Someday the kiddo will let me have more focused talking time so I can try to make more videos and have more conversations. :)

There was an interesting discussion on Reddit after NeovimConf 2024 (https://www.reddit.com/r/neovim/s/TSFc3cVGGV) People were happy about the talks. Some seemed a little frustrated by interruptions from ads, getting off schedule, and a chat that might sometimes get a little distracted by meme potential. EmacsConf is a lot smaller than NeovimConf in terms of viewers - twitchtracker says NeovimConf got 3640 (plus more on YouTube) and we got about 400. We're, like, an order of magnitude smaller. That might be why self-hosting via Icecast is manageable for us. We started automating scheduling a few years ago because I wanted to accept more talks than could comfortably fit in a day, and since I was figuring out that infrastructure close to the conference, I needed something that I could handle by myself without going crazy. Even though my co-organizers are now more familiar with the fallback scripts for manual control, they prefer the automatic schedule. And community is a gift beyond anything I can code. I remember watching the IRC logs scroll past and feeling deeply appreciative of how wonderful and thoughtful people are, even during some of the tougher sessions we've had in the past.

Also we like doing captions and transcripts and putting up the videos as soon as possible. :) Text makes things easier to search and skim, especially from within Emacs. And videos, well, we've got them, we might as well have a little bit of code to publish them right away.

I reached out to teej_dv and ThePrimeagen on X to see if I could learn from their NeovimConf notes or in case any of our notes might be helpful. TJ said they don't really write things down. Makes sense because they're more video people. I hope they'll consider doing a postmortem braindump and maybe even sharing that publicly. I think that would be really cool.

For me, I lean heavily on automation, documentation, and incremental improvements partly because it's fun, partly because it helps me make the most of what little time I can squeeze in between interruptions, and partly because it ripples out and helps other people who often end up paying it forward. Emacs is very well-suited to this, of course. Every time we get to do EmacsConf, I learn even more and build up more tools along the way.

I think Vim and Neovim have a way bigger userbase than Emacs does, and I'm glad to see Neovim talks sharing workflows beyond the usual software development things. I do think there's something wonderful about the multiplicity of things that people use Emacs for, and how we've got this culture of both figuring out how to tailor Emacs to yourself and sharing those ideas with other people. I'd love to see what happens as Neovim and other editors build that critical mass of user configuration and community sharing, when people can figure out something for themselves by cobbling together stuff from other people. I think it's kinda cool how people shift from one editor to another, even. If they bring ideas from Emacs to somewhere else, or they bring ideas from somewhere else back to Emacs, things get better.

I'd love it if NeovimConf could also be a smoothly-running way to get stuff out of people's heads, connect people with other people, and inspire more awesomeness. I'd love it if people could do that sort of stuff with all sorts of other mini-conferences about their interests. Could be fun!

People like the organizer.
There was supposed to be one talk about an attempt to re-vitalize a Guile-powered Emacs. I am not sure if it's in there somewhere or not (but I haven't looked yet).

I imagine Emacs gaining native compilation capability took some pressure off that. But the appeal of scripting Emacs in languages other than Elisp still has some appeal, I think. Scheme or Lua would very nice for that purpose.

EDIT: There it is - https://emacsconf.org/2024/talks/guile/

> or Lua would very nice for that purpose.

There have been a couple of front-page threads on Lua recently and their comments really show how polarizing of a language that one is

I think just having a proper runtime for elisp would be great...

I am a guile person, but even if the Emacs folks would only allow elisp on guile it would still be a win.

I was hoping to see something about EAF[1] this year, as I think the big thing emacs is still missing is a good way to drive interactive graphics, but EAF is still super janky and underdocumented.

It'd be good to see this (or something better!) make progress.

[1]: https://github.com/emacs-eaf/emacs-application-framework

Ah man, I'm gutted I didn't "attend" this. Been an Emacs user more than 15 years and people like Sacha were there at the beginning for me and a huge reason why I got into Emacs back then. I feel so lucky to have got into it back then. I see colleagues struggling with their tools which they can't fix or even tweak, but I can't imagine any of them putting in the time now to learn Emacs. It's truly the editor of a lifetime.
> It's truly the editor of a lifetime.

This is the main reason I use it as well.

Emacs is far from perfect. It's slow, lacks some of the bells and whistles of other editors, and can be downright frustrating to use at times.

But damnit, it's _mine_. It has allowed me to create the perfect editing and programming experience _for me_, and no other environment gives me that freedom and enjoyment. Vim and friends come close, and I continue to use it as my secondary editor (and couldn't function without vim-mode), but Emacs allows much deeper customization and Lisp is so elegant for this.

As editors come and go, it's comforting to know that Emacs will always be there for me. Warts and all. <3

I was really impressed with the online presentation of EmacsConf 2024. Everything captured and published in org-mode: Transcripts, Comments, QA, Video links. Was really nice to peruse.
Wondering if the Lem project is “accepted” (or worth a test drive) by the Emacs community. I’m a long time Emacs user, occasionally leaving but always returning. Lately, Lem has my attention. https://github.com/lem-project/lem

For those not familiar, Lem is very approximately an Emacs, natively written and extendable in Common Lisp, multiplatform, NCurses & SDL2, etc. LSP. And fast.

I remember that last year's talk on Emacsen included Lem and it was well-received. https://emacsconf.org/2023/talks/emacsen/ I hope Lem continues to grow!
Lem is really great. I hope it keeps gaining mind share because it's superior to emacs in a lot of key ways.
What is better, from your experience?

I'm a happy Emacs user, but think having more options is great, and I've delved into some Common Lisp and certainly am eager to learn more. So I'm thrilled to see Lem continue to be developed.

I tried it out twice now but it doesn't support multiple frames. So it's a terminal only sorta thing? Or maybe Wayland? Whatever, it doesn't support multiple decade proven workflows. Totally ok, but not superior.
Latest release is of February. Has progress been made?
Sounds nice, how is the ecosystem of plugins/extensions compared to Emacs? Are there Debian packaging plans?
I loved browsing the emacsconf videos this year, really nicely presented, and such cool stuff happening. Still have lots to watch, but so far in particular the infrastructural and UI type stuff seemed amazing, there's loads happening! Favourites included:

https://emacsconf.org/2024/talks/casual/ -- Charles Choi designing UIs for human beings rather than octopuses (this jibe is meant fondly, I am a happy octopus)

https://emacsconf.org/2024/talks/literate/ -- Howard Abram, literate programming

https://emacsconf.org/2024/talks/gypsum/ -- Emacs and emacs lisp clone in Guile

https://emacsconf.org/2024/talks/rust/ -- Rune, an experimental Emacs core in Rust

https://emacsconf.org/2024/talks/julia/ -- lovely talk about the synchronicity between Julia and Emacs

https://emacsconf.org/2024/talks/guile/ -- Robin Templeton relaunches Guile-Emacs!

https://emacsconf.org/2024/talks/mcclim/ -- eh, this talk accepted questions from lambdaMOO?

> The total hosting cost for the conference was USD 42.92 + tax and the BBB testing in the lead-up to the conference was USD 3.11 + tax, so a total of USD 46.03+tax. The web node and the livestreaming node are kept as 1GB nanodes the rest of the year (USD 5 x 2 servers + tax, so USD 110). Very manageable.

How does this compared to all other conf costs?

Though this does not contain the cost in invested time. Try setting up BBB with Docker. It is not easy, unless you have done it before and are somehow an expert. I tried and gave up. Month or years later people still post in issues I opened. Since a docker deployment is also not the official deployment, there is little help from maintainers, understandably. It is also a huge setup, with many running parts.

Very cool though, that they managed to pull it off.

Oh, do you mean like the domain name registration? That's also pretty small. I think it was, like, 12 USD, but I don't have the exact cost handy at the moment.

We've been experimenting with sending tokens of appreciation (evil plan: stickers/pins might get other people to talk to speakers about Emacs), but Corwin's treating that as a personal experiment and not including it in the conference budgeting.

And of course, there's a lot of stuff that isn't counted in monetary costs, like the time that speakers put into their talks or the servers that people have shared with us.

But yeah, it's surprising what you can do on a shoestring budget and with casual volunteers. Definitely worth considering if people have been thinking about running their own conference. :)

I have followed Sacha for a long while, love her frequent Emacs updates. I am a rabid Common Lisp enthusiast, and I bought the Mastering Emacs book last year, I just need to pull the trigger and try doing a project in Emacs Lisp.
Common lisp -> elisp is an incredibly frustration transition. Get ready to really think in terms of dynamic scoping.

I did it the other way, and going back to elisp is /hard/.

Do you think TeXmacs should be included in EmacsConf, even though it is based on neither Emacs nor TeX, but merely inspired by them?
From an entirely armchair commentator, I think so - the exchange of ideas and enthusiasm among Emacs-likes can only benefit both projects and Lisp-based editors in general. (The reason I’m very armchair is because use LyX when I want to write technical documents, which does leave out one of TeXmacs’s really important use cases.)
As someone who exclusively uses emacs for all their editing, some nice topics there; though a bit miffed it's all video only.

Although this, from the page linked, was pretty fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc

On the main page for this year there are all kinds of media available, audio, video, slides, transcripts, Q&A: https://emacsconf.org/2024/talks/.
I really enjoyed the conference this year! It had a good mix of project updates, emacs internals, configuration, Emacs rewrites in different languages, org-mode applications, community, interesting packages, and things that went over my head.
I wonder how many users Emacs has lost to VS Code over the past few years. I'm one of them.

Feels sad. And also potentially shortsighted.

> I wonder how many users Emacs has lost to VS Code over the past few years. I'm one of them.

I think Emacs users care more about the total population than one particular outmigration.

I don't have actual data, but if I compare to the amount of activity (blog posts, tweets/toots, packages, etc), then (heavy) Emacs usage seems to be monotonically increasing.

Almost everyone I know who switched to VSCode was using Emacs primarily for work, and mostly limited to SW development. That category of users may be large in absolute numbers, but most of the Emacs ecosystem is not driven by that category (i.e. even if that category shrinks to a tenth of its size, it won't have any impact on Emacs development).

Just take a look at the talks in the conference. The vast majority are orthogonal to SW development/programming.

I’m genuinely wondering why you would chose VSC over emacs. Granted, I’m on doom emacs and it’s mainly because I’m too lazy to config Neovim, so it’s not like I’m really a purist. I even use VSC occasionally when I’m in a context on my lovely windows work computers where I don’t have access to WSL, but it’s such a horrible experience. It’s slow, the plugins are ass and the LSPs are horrible for basically anything which isn’t Typescript.

I don’t even think VSC is “that” bad despite what I made it sound like, but it’s probably as temporary as any other modern IDE. In a few years “every” VSC user will probably have moved on to Zed. Meanwhile your emacs (or vim) dot files will setup the only IDE you’ve ever used on any machine.

I’ve tried twice to make the move to VS Code and keep coming back to Emacs. I would often be overwhelmed by my obsession to tweak things (ADHD..) but switching to Doom Emacs and sticking to the standard config helped with that. Learning some Elisp to write custom functions and embracing org-mode has made it near impossible to switch to another editor now.
I was one of them but I went back. It’s just soooo good, and VS Code sits in my uncanny valley of almost-but-not-quite native in a way that bugs me.
I tried vscode, but couldn't picture leaving emacs for it.
I was an Emacs user for years, then discovered Helix. I tried it on a whim and it turns out that I really enjoyed a modal editor that requires minimal config. I'm not sure if it's due to my an age, but I no longer want to constantly tweak my setup and just want a solid out of the box experience.
If vscode could replicate the fuzzy-search -> filter -> collect-to-buffer flows that I'm used to with emacs, I'd be right there with you.

I don't think there's an argument to be made that we're at risk of losing something. So much of editor progress in the past ~years is shared -- treesitter, lsp backends, linters and snippets, etc. It's hard for me to imagine how the editor ecosystem could collapse.

The percentage of the pie is smaller, but the pie has grown so much larger that in absolute numbers, there may not be any decrease.

> And also potentially shortsighted.

Looking at the recent releases, it feels like the vscode enshittification has already begun...

Is a matter of time until it will be enshitified, and they come back…
I can’t see myself leaving Emacs. Maybe for LunarVim, in an extreme case. But otherwise, no.
Amazing work again! EmacsConf was as fun as ever this year
Sacha is awesome!!!