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Stargate was a CIA project that explored parasciences: telepathy, twin telepathy, astral projection and remote viewing. It was scrapped in 93 after 25 years of not showing anything, despite some parasciences 'professionals' who participated claiming it did.
The CIA declassified all information, and while the 70s documents show clear interest and weird results, reading it in chronological order is very interesting as you can feel desillusions set in as experimental protocols hardens and results prove irreproducible.
Hahaha! Omg, this comment above is the unhinged fantasy version, a surprisingly common misrepresentation. Impressive how you condensed so much misinformation into only a couple of sentences - I guess you had to try. Do you often foreclose your curiosity with invented fantasies?
It was not a "CIA project" - it was a US Army unit; the name "STAR GATE" is merely the final public program name for a bunch of related programs; collectively, their intelligence missions served government customers including the special forces, CIA, NSA, DIA, NRO, etc.
- They didn't "declassify everything", there's lots of redactions and more documents;
- it wasn't "scrapped after not showing anything despite some participants claiming it did", RV has a very high success rate (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42584264), and Stargate became an unacknowledged program - these are facts despite some unhinged internet commenters seemingly having an issue with it; and
- "reading it in chronological order" - you don't see disillusion or non-reproducible results, you see 25 years in a row of renewed funding on the back of quality intelligence product continued being ordered by government customers.
I wonder, with all the ways you went wrong, did you have to try very hard to make that up?
It also didn't "explore parasciences: telepathy, twin telepathy" as if that was the main thing - Stargate mostly researched, developed and practiced remote viewing. Which you can try too, which probably would be a good idea, so maybe you come up with more accurate stuff than you did here. Head to https://reddit.com/r/remoteviewing/ and learn something before you talk next time. Good idea, right? Hahaha!
For context: this is a transcript from a remote viewing session, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project
For anyone who doesn't know, there later was a popular "Stargate" military sci-fi TV and movie franchise.
Since we're talking about secret military and CIA projects, a fun thing that the "Stargate SG-1" TV series (about a secret military project) did at one point was to have a plot arc around a conspiracy theorist character, who was going to expose the project. So, to placate the conspiracy theorist, and discredit public chatter that was getting too close to the truth, the military in the TV series... commissioned a cheesy military sci-fi TV series, based on the truth of the actual military sci-fi TV series.
"Wormhole X-treme": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT-Vf_x4Dc4
They even did a faux behind-the-scenes piece for it, within the TV series universe (which then broke the fourth wall, to reference the entire real-world franchise): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0hW0A43n3Y
And here's a website that is dedicated to continuing some of the coordinate remove viewing legacy of project Center Lane: https://centerlane-rv.org/
In addition, there's a remote viewing subreddit which holds regular practices and encourages you to post results: https://reddit.com/r/remoteviewing
And IRVA (intl. association) has a pretty good scientific bibliography if that floats your boat: https://www.irva.org/library/bibliography
there's also a nice movie & book called "Men Who Stare at Goats" - a reference to the fact that they tried to kill goats with their mind as a weapon. Haven't read the book, but have seen the movie docudrama(?) starring george clooney and that guy from star wars and big fish, it's not bad, taps into some of the hippie energy of the whole thing
I wonder how much reality it bears to the whole thing that actually happened a part of which is the subject of this post and discussion? The movie probably does not bear much similarity at all hahaha!
If anyone is interested in hearing from some of the members of the Stargate program (mainly remote viewers) themselves, the Shawn Ryan Show podcast has several of them.
The interviews are fairly well done in my opinion.
Yeah I thought they were pretty good as well. Joe McMoneagle #95, Skip Atwater #154, Edwin May #122, Angela Ford #145, Col John Alexander #96
Sounds like whoever spoke or wrote that text was a science fiction buff.
The whole thing was (and is) highly controversial; Stargate claimed a bit of successes as well as many failures.
> was (and is) highly controversial; Stargate claimed a bit of successes as well as many failures.
Hm, I wouldn't say RV is controversial - only possibly in the sense that heliocentrism was controversial in the 15th and 16th centuries: i.e., to the folks who had not been exposed to the data showing the Earth orbits the Sun. Specifically tho, this sentiment and similar in other comments, are common misrepresentations or misconceptions. Here are the key stats from the same ("Stargate") document archives - by 1983:
85% of 700 RV missions gave accurate target information.
50% of 700 RV missions produced usable intelligence.
In summary, over the past 5 years INSCOM has conducted 89 collection projects for a number of different US government agencies. Our successes must be examined from two perspectives. (Chart change) Over 85% of our operational missions have produced accurate target information. Even more significant, approximately 50% of the 700 missions produced usable intelligence.
Page 8,
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700330003-6.pdf
More facts: Hal Puthoff has suggested in a recent interview with Eric Weinstein and Jesse Michels that the RV programs were not discontinued when declassified in 1995, but rather "went dark" (became unacknowledged special access programs). The "debunking" report accompanying the 1995 declassification was most likely ritual cover for this.
So what's the theory of how RV actually works? If it's possible to get "actionable intelligence" by this method, I think it would imply that the scientific materialist worldview is completely wrong. Because how could information that e.g. only exists in some other person's mind direct the remote viewer to a target, unless the information itself was somehow more "fundamentally real" and interpretable than the complex interplay of matter and energy that must go on inside of the human brain that holds it, assuming "matter" and "energy" and "brains" are real?
I'm not saying that this is impossible, but if it's true, we would have to throw out much - perhaps all - of present day scientific consensus.
One comment I've seen on Reddit seems to offer an alternative explanation:
>RV functions as a kind of precognition-on-demand. Think about it like the opposite of memory. Instead of setting your intention to view information from a memory in the past, you are setting your intention to view information from an experience you will have in the future, which is the act of checking feedback. If you have no real world feedback, then you have no verifiable real world data in your session.
Still outside of mainstream science, but I think there are some theories of quantum mechanics where the future can affect the past? If that were the case, being informed that the target was "Mars, 1 million years ago" might inspire one to come up with a narrative like that and transmit it to your past self?
Wow, your openness to explore this is truly commendable! When you dove in with that "if it's possible, that means that" YES! That's the kind of courageous willingness to explore, unburdened by "religiously held" biases blinkering inference, that humanity needs to advance.
Personally, I have no idea what the theory is, but it's an interesting question. I guess it might be beyond the reach of our current theoretical understandings to explain it. Which, from the point of view of advancing understanding of reality, makes it particularly interesting data - that you can obtain at no cost yourself.
I guess we wouldn't have to discard our consensus, but rather see present understanding from a more rigorously (and purely) "Scientific" point of view: as mere temporary models, beads in a evolving chain of understanding, to be discarded and adapted (not worshipped or imposed). That's true science. Maybe our coherent predictive theories represent a good description of "top layer" physical reality, but fail to describe a possible "substrate layer" where consciousness an information play integral roles. In a like way to how physical properties and descriptions change when moving media, from air to water, or space.
PEAR lab research "retrocausality" (fairly conclusively showing that future image stimulus could affect present biosigns). I think that's another effect of the underlying thing, but it's not the whole thing. How can you view the past? How can RV work when no "remote human" is involved?
Am I understanding you correctly in that for you this isn't controversial, because it's clear from today's/some future's standpoint that RV does work?
Do you have any other sources on that? I would imagine someone replicated this...
You'd like additional data to the above? Sure! Many people are doing it all the time, and so can you. Head over to https://reddit.com/r/remoteviewing and try the pinned FAQ (read through it, and get to A quick, easy and fun way to try remote viewing for the first time is through our [beginner's guide].) to do a session for yourself. See how you go! :)
Interesting, I went a little down the rabbit hole.
And it's not what I'm actually looking for. I'm looking for controlled studies with a falsifiable hypothesis and a detailed section on the study design :)
I've spent some time looking for such studies and I didn't find anything (convincing). So if anyone has something to share, I'd appreciate that
That's the problem tho: you don't be convinced because you're not rational on this topic. Prior data - no way around it except first hand experience. So you have to try - otherwise your ego/intellectual will invent decorative fantasies to call issue with any new data that challenges that. Understandable, no attack on your - but if you really want to get to the truth on this - channel it into trying for yourself first. That's the only way.
Then once you have sufficient prior data, you'll be able to actually look at the evidence (stuff, academic) if that actually interests you!
> Hm, I wouldn't say RV is controversial
I would say it is, because as always with anything on the "para" edge, those who are convinced remain convinced and those who are not keep on saying it's a fraud. This applies to you, dear reader.
No, not really true. Your phony descriptions do not apply to me, and need not apply to anyone or anything, dear misrepresenter! It’s okay, you just don’t know about it. You should get some experience tho,?#! ODU/?VA?!!. Vector in! :)
How come nobody can replicate this in less opaque settings?
Anyone can get 100% accuracy by guessing trivial things that are always true regardless of the nature of the target. Without more information these numbers aren't meaningful
"Remote viewing has demonstrated it is of value and has a high rate of success... We do not evaluate our product. All evaluations are done by the professional intelligence analysts who assign the project. Collection of intelligence through remote viewing is not an experiment. It is a successful collection method. The army effort is not research and development, it is operational collection..."
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R0011002...
Obviously people lie but a compelling report.
Hey, nice find! You don't need to rely on liars tho - if you're worried about it - just try for yourself. Tho you probably know it's real!
> just try for yourself.
More probably the conclusions from the project manager are positive exaggerations because it would directly benefit from the continuation of the project but let's consider the possibility that RV works! This would be a fantastic evidence of psychic/paranormal phenomena that would make anyone reconsider other paranormal/spiritual claims that we're previously dismissed. Which creates a dilemma because if I'm non-receptive to paranormal phenomena it will not work and there's no point in trying and if I'm receptive then it's unwise because divination is sinful according to the majority of religions.
I imagine there's a "reality" be it real or fictitious where RV and other forms of divination works but ain't widespread enough to be scientifically acknowledged because those really capable of it knows it leads to eternal damnation so they don't practice it or share it publicly. In this same "reality" it's possible that the CIA as other intelligence agencies successfully used divination to acquire intel but discontinued it as they did with Blackbird because nowadays the have much better ways like software backdoors, spy satellites and even OSINT. And to note at best RV produces subjective intel which is non-optimal.
But sadly your OG link was borked! The actual link is:
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001100290005-5.pdf
Page 12 (final page)> Anyone can get 100% accuracy by guessing trivial things that are always true regardless of the nature of the target
But trivial things that are always true does not describe the information sought by government customers from these programs, to which the above data refer.
> How come nobody can replicate this in less opaque settings?
You can, right now! You can try it yourself, see my other comments in this thread for resources.
> information sought by government customers from these programs, to which the above data refer.
Those numbers aren't described with the level of rigor needed to be considered evidence. No examples, no methodology, etc. We don't know what "usable intelligence" means. You have taken the liberty of interpreting that in a particularly generous way.
> You can, right now!
I mean under controlled conditions. Why didn't any of these people in /r/remoteviewing sign up for the JREF $1 million prize? Or at least contact parapsychologists (e.g. Dean Radin or Daryl Bem) who would have been happy to facilitate rigorous public experiments? The best we have from experiments is statistical effects, e.g. guessing a coinflip correctly 51% of the time over large numbers of trials. Not the kind of large, obvious effects that "50% useable intelligence" or "85% accuracy" is hinting at.
And you will always take the liberty of interpreting any 3rd-party data in a particularly conservative way until you correct your prior data deficit with first hand experience. That's the key issue.
So you need to try if you are serious about getting the truth. Think of it like doing the required pre-requisite work to understand a new topic. This is the same.
Why would you enter a competition you believe was a rigged attempt to disprove what you know through first hand experience to be real?
I want to believe
Try for yourself! :)
It's notable that the DIA/CIA only pursued remote viewing as seriously as they did because the amount of "correct guesses" the remote viewers were making were well above random chance.
If it actually provided good intel they would still be doing it, and not releasing info about it in FOIA requests.
No, the point is it lasted as long as it did, which is quite a while.
According to people whose funding or careers depended on the program showing promise/success?
When that success and funding could only be guaranteed by delivering accurate intel product to government customers at a variety of agencies?
Is that what happened? And if intel from the magical box program was deemed correct, who determined that, and how do we know it wasn't parallel construction to improve the program's credibility, or even a tool to fabricate intel to influence a decision. (For example of the latter: "Mr. President, Black Toaster confirms the target location, but we'd have to deploy within the hour, on your order"?)
When your intelligence product customers keep ordering from you, you know you're onto a good thing.
However, if you believe parallel construction was needed, I suppose you are also acknowledging the intel was good. If you have concerns the Stargate archives are disinformation to disguise a true source, you can interrogate this belief that RV is mere parallel construction by trying it yourself. Just head over to https://reddit.com/r/remoteviewing and follow the FAQ to try a session. See how you go!
What makes you say that?
Descriptiveness, some of the descriptions used, and delivery.
Which descriptiveness and descriptions and what about the delivery?