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by jjmarr·1y ago·view on hn ↗
> He was consistent and clear when he talked about his identity in California courtrooms as he tried to fight the charges on the grounds that he really was the man whose name he was accused of stealing. But Mr. Woods made other remarks that seemed to amplify the doubts. In court appearances, transcripts show, he would sometimes interrupt the judge, talk about historical figures or assert that he had tried to warn the F.B.I. in advance of the Sept. 11 attacks.

I wonder how many people are telling the truth about something, and aren't taken seriously because they're problematic about something else.

15 comments
I was once dragged to a hospital by police because they were looking for a drug smuggler that was not me. They told hospital staff I was a druggie criminal with drugs up my ass, as I sat there in cuffs.

It is incredibly hard to overcome such accusation by someone in authority. Nurses cursed me, touched me without consent, and several doctors examined me. They ultimately found nothing, and noted no intoxication, but noted in my medical record that they think i am a smuggler anyway, with no explanation as to why.

I am now in medical debt for a non-existent 'overdose' bill that notes no intoxication...

I imagine as soon as some official person insists the identity isn't yours, just as multiple doctors wouldn't believe despite all evidence to contrary, they won't believe you.

Something similar happened to one of our sons. Unfortunately he has a history of drug use that landed him in legal trouble. The local police recognize him. He had a minor fender bender. The police tested him for alcohol there, clean. But then given history they detained him and took him to the nearest ER for a battery of drug tests -- for which the hospital billed our son, and for which our son is on the hook. It's bonkers.
I'm surprised the police doesn't have to pay for them. It's not that the tests were medically necessary.
I read the piece on your blog viewing your life story from various perspectives. This story about your son seems a good example of those facets for him; in this case, the hospital situation piling on top of existing challenges. What a scam. Best of luck to both of you.
One day I got a call at work from my (now previous) partner. "What's up?" "You need to come home, we need to talk."

I duly do.

"So I went to the doctor earlier today. Had an issue. They swabbed me and told me I have an STD. So they did a full STD and blood test, we'll see how that goes. In the meantime, who did you cheat on me with?"

"Uh, nobody."

Back and forth, arguing, etc. Me insisting I'll go get tested.

The doctor rings back the next day. "We reviewed and looked again under the scope, and you do not have an STD, just a yeast infection."

Relationship relief.

A month later, get a call from the clinic: "So about this bill for $290 for a full workup and testing, can you pay that today?"

No. Not a chance. You not only misread a test, but you also gave my girlfriend factually inaccurate information that you knew was going to be controversial. On the strength of that, you told her, "If it wasn't you, you really need to get fully tested if you don't know where he's been."

And then you want to send me the bill for the battery of tests you ordered because you misread a culture? No.

That's despicable. What a clearly grotesque thing for a cop to be able to do, forcing people to involuntarily spend their own money to accomplish police business. If they want the tests, the least they should do is pay for them!

Mind if I ask what area he lived in?

For people from most places outside the US, I bet such stories from US's medical system sound totally crazy. It is crazy for a medical system to function like this charging somebody for being involuntarily treated, and even more for no medical cause.

What would have happened, to the hospital's part, if they had declared that you were not intoxicated and you should not have been brought to the hospital, and sent you on your way? Would the police have had to justify dragging you to the hospital, and pay for your examination? I suspect that going along with the police may have been the decision with the simplest and most profitable outcome for everybody (apart from you) and that the hospital side was incetivised to go along with police's story rather than against, but I am not sure how things there typically work in such cases.

Being skeptical about authority figures is always a good thing, it always surprise me to see populations so deferent to them like americans are to law enforcement.
How are people surprised that Luigi Mangione is considered a hero?
They can force you to pay when you don't consent to treatment?
You should talk to a no fee lawyer or three. Financial & Emotional damages can help assuage the anger you have.
Authority bias is very real, very problematic, and very well documented. As a consequence, those in authority must always be held to a high standard. Always doubt an assertion by authority unless accompanied with sufficient evidence.
Wow, it's like if the movie Brazil was a documentary.
Good Lord that’s terrible, what country did this happen in?
why didn't you sue?
I hope you never pay it and shoot anyone who tries to collect that debt.
Can you sue?
I have a cousin who is paranoid schizophrenic. He makes all kinds of wild claims about all sorts of things: family abuse, screwed over by employers/landlords, beaten up by the police for no reason, the people living in the crawl space are poisoning him, etc, etc... Many of them are provably false e.g. those family members didn't live there at the time of the allegation, the body cam clearly shows him charging the police and then trying to grab their guns while they try to wrestle him into handcuffs, nobody in the crawl space, etc. The problem is that it'd take a full time detective to track down all his various claims. It's very sad that as a vulnerable person he probably is sometimes taken advantage of by people, but at the same time he's never been compliant with medicine and therapy for more than a couple months at a time, despite extensive support. It's kind of a no win situation.
It is a weird twist on the fairy tale. What if you had a medical condition that compelled you to cry “Wolf” all the time? Obviously the townsfolk can’t spend all their time responding to false wolf sightings, but there is no lessoned to be learned when The Boy actually believes he sees a wolf every day.
I have been close to multiple people who made similar paranoid allegations while psychotic. It is sometimes hard for people to understand the allegations are false or part of an illness. This can include judges and mental health professionals.
Someone I know who has a psychotic illness was telling people “my dad is having an affair”. And people didn’t believe her because they just assumed it was another one of her delusions

Then guess what we find out a few months later? Yep, her father really is having an affair, and her mother has just discovered it and is now filing for divorce over it

Shouldn't he be on a long acting injection?
>I wonder how many people are telling the truth about something, and aren't taken seriously because they're problematic about something else.

(Un)fortunately, there is a quite famous experiment

>The Rosenhan experiment or Thud experiment was an experiment regarding the validity of psychiatric diagnosis. For the experiment, participants submitted themselves for evaluation at various psychiatric institutions and feigned hallucinations in order to be accepted, but acted normally from then onward. Each was diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder and given antipsychotic medication.

> For the experiment, participants submitted themselves for evaluation at various psychiatric institutions

How did anyone volunteer for this? Isn't there a risk of actually getting stuck at the asylum, or failing to clarify it was an experiment to have it removed from your records?

"The meds are working"
This is how divorce goes now based on my experience. The legal system is not setup to handle these sorts of problems well and leaves the innocent to deal with the fall out of bad actors and lawyers who empower them.

This won’t be corrected until there are penalties for political, legal, and administrative professionals who don’t do their due diligence.

Yes! This is divorce in America right now, if one party is willing to make up a series of lies, no matter how unbelievable the court will just default to the one making the accusations because its too much work to even try to sort out truth from lie, thats why the lawyers call it, "Liars Court" because the biggest liar wins.
This is in most small civil law areas and even summary criminal cases. They simply aren't important enough for the people in power to do their due diligence or give a shit. Nobody can force them to do their jobs either.
> or assert that he had tried to warn the F.B.I. in advance of the Sept. 11 attacks

That’s a very long shot but I now want someone to verify this claim too, in case he was also telling the truth.

Imagine if some member of the bin Laden family was high on something and had rumors of their cousin's shenanigans and were spilling them out on some IRC channel or BBS or whatever, and that guy happened upon them and tried to alert the police, only to be dismissed as a lunatic and end up in prison for unrelated reasons while the disaster happened. That would be a true Kafkian nightmare.
"I wonder how many people are telling the truth about something, and aren't taken seriously because they're problematic about something else."

Isn't that everybody now? Credibility is a strange thing in the age of social media.

No, i don't think so. I have an older friend that is persuaded to have seen something most people don't believe in back in the 90s. He just won't claim it publicly, and don't talk about it all the time, it's not a core part of his personality. Even if some people make fun of him for it (i don't think it happen nowadays, but it might), they can, and probably will believe him on other subjects (he is a very precise and knowledgeable in electronics, and have really interesting philosophical point of views).
Evaluating things people say in the context of their general credibility and character is pretty evergreen.
Just because you're crazy doesn't mean you're wrong.
The contrapositive of which is just because you’re right does not mean you are not crazy.
This is just the system getting rid of (in their eyes) an undesirable. The truth doesn't really matter in these cases unless you have tens of thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer to plead your case.
Having grown up in the Deep South, I feel like every single person in the justice system from police to judge make decisions about you based on how you look and subconsciously decide to not believe facts or allow weak facts to have more weight. Nothing about this question seems outrageous to me whatsoever. And I think that’s the shocking part here.
> I wonder how many people are telling the truth about something, and aren't taken seriously because they're problematic about something else.

Likely a metric fuck ton. The perceived quality of one's character plays an outsized role in getting people to believe you. Serial killers figured that out a long time ago.

“problematic” being a rather charitable term here, I think
What word would you use?
I wonder the same but I also firmly believe it's a useless and unproductive thing to worry about.

I mean, I wonder how many gold coins are laying in the forest? Surely there are many, and you can find ample news stories of people locating them out there, but I can confidently tell you that if you assembled a team an combed the forest for a year, maybe you would find one object worthy of a news story. And definitely you would wasted thousands of man hours that could have produced far far far more than what the object is worth.

Is it? There's a sibling comment to yours about somebody who went through this - seems like the rate is higher than the "gold coin in the woods."
I'm not sure that being "problematic" was the issue here; it sounds more like they might have thought he wasn't fully sane. I could imagine thinking that someone fully believed what they said about their identity in the same way they believed that they could have stopped 9/11 if people had listened to them beforehand. The issue isn't thinking they have bad takes or unsavory opinions, but that they have trouble distinguishing reality from delusions.
This is how these institutions work. If someone behaves erratically, holds unconventional beliefs or just doesn't present themselves in the "right" way, they can be dismissed entirely
The literal moral of "The boy who cries Wolf"? Liars are not believed even when they tell the truth.

... probably all of them.