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by carimura·1y ago·view on hn ↗
> Cops are known to be abusive, violent thugs

Although I agree with your sentiment on data privacy, I don't know where you live but in the United States this is a gross [and potentially dangerous] overgeneralization of a million+ hard-working officers who committed their lives to your safety in spite of regularly encountering life-threatening situations.

6 comments
Being a police officer doesn't even rank in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in America. Loggers, fishers, roofers, and delivery drivers all face higher fatality rates according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data.

The Supreme Court explicitly ruled in Castle Rock v. Gonzales (2005) that police have no constitutional duty to protect citizens from harm, effectively nullifying the "committed their lives to your safety" claim.

These "million+ hard-working officers" actively maintain the corrupt system by refusing to hold their colleagues accountable. The "few bad apples" theory falls apart when entire departments and unions systematically protect officers who abuse their power.

American police have earned their reputation through decades of documented misconduct, militarization, and resistance to meaningful reform. The institution works exactly as designed.

This made me remember a news story out of Mississippi last year of hundreds of graves behind a jail with no accountability of whose body is placed there.

It only came to light after much struggle from people searching for missing family members. Basically people in police or jail custody who died were dumped in there under a blanket assumption that no family had claimed them, but no attempts to notify or find family members was made.

https://jacksonadvocateonline.com/crump-wants-inquiry-of-215...

> "The "few bad apples" theory falls apart when entire departments and unions systematically protect officers who abuse their power."

Actually most people never complete the statement. It seems to be entirely accurate.

"One bad apple can spoil the barrel / bunch."

The bunch has been definitely been spoiled.

>> hard-working officers who committed their lives to your safety

> The Supreme Court explicitly ruled in Castle Rock v. Gonzales (2005) that police have no constitutional duty to protect citizens from harm

If a duty isn't constitutional then it doesn't exist?

That's what the ruling implies, yeah. The response to the Uvalde school shooting bears that out. Police get all the power and none of the responsibility.
In a legal sense, yes. That police can't be held legally liable if they fail to protect someone from harm. They might lose their job, if their boss actually cares about officers putting their lives on the line to protect people, but they are under no obligation to do that. And in practice, most won't ever punish an officer for failing to protect someone when they could have done so.
you obviously don't know a lot of officers. maybe you should meet some and hang out with them for a few days.
Personal experiences don't override statistics or legal precedent. I don't need to "hang out" with officers to understand the well documented patterns of police misconduct or the Supreme Court rulings about their lack of duty to protect citizens.

The "just meet some nice cops" argument is precisely how institutions avoid accountability for systemic problems. Individuals, and how nice they might be, are irrelevant when discussing institutional failures.

The Supreme court ruling has absolutely no bearing on this.

What statistics, what well documented patterns? You mean biased selection of footage from Reddit?

And yet you're letting your own personal experiences override statistics, yourself? What's the prevalence rate of abuses of power among law enforcement officers?

"Well-documented patterns of abuse" are not statistics! But, if I'm mistaken and they are, please let me know what percentage of police officers engage in abuse of power in their career. I'd love to see those kinds of statistics!

Allowing cops to get away with abuses is also an abuse. So, for example, if a cop murders a citizen and gets away with it, not only is it that cop that has abused their position of authority, but every other cop at that precinct who knows what happened is abusing their position of authority.

I'm not sure that sort of thing is something you can tie up neatly into a bow and present as some set of statistics. But it's a phenomenon that's very real.

This is yet another deflection. If you cannot do anything other than wave away your lack of evidence, I'm forced to conclude that you actually have no idea what you're talking about.

Tons of people have seen things they can't explain, and are convinced that ghosts and the supernatural exist. Those phenomena are "very real" to those folks, too.

To be clear, I agree that police abusing their power is a "real phenomenon", in the sense that it certainly happens. But until you can provide ample evidence that these behaviors are thing a significant minority of police officers take part in, then your generalizing them to all police officers is just about as "real" as ghosts.

I don't care if they're "good people" individually. Every atrocity in every history book was committed by "good people" working together (though people tend to obscure that either for comfort or because they want to repeat history). The system is rotten.
Well, you should. Saying "cops are thugs" because some cops are thugs is no different (morally speaking) than saying "black people are criminals" because some black people are criminals. It's wrong to judge an entire diverse group of people by the actions of a few, period.
Cops have the protection of the law and a government granted mandate for violence. They're not a bunch of individuals deciding to act in a particular way. They operate in a system that will protect them for thuggish behaviour. If they happen to be "nice people" as individuals, they still have the option to be a thug without penalty. They still choose to implicitly support wide spread inequality and consequence free violence.

If, as an individual citizen, I'm aware of a serious crime being committed, I have an obligation to report it. If a "good" police officer has knowledge of crimes committed by "bad" police officers and they don't report it, then they are no longer a "good" police officer.

Your analogy is a false equivalence.

They are categorically thugs. It is literally their job to enforce literally anything with up to lethal violence. It is dressed up in due process and whatnot but it is still thuggery. The difference between, idk cops in France or whatever, and cartel enforcers or a medieval lord's men at arms is mostly one of process, available money and social norms.
Bullshit, it's completely different.

A non-criminal black person has no control or responsibility over a random criminal black person.

A police officer absolutely can speak up, speak out, and blow the whistle when one of their fellow officers does awful things. But most will just keep their mouths shut and help (actively or passively) with whatever coverup the institution decides is appropriate.

We're not talking about guilt by association, here. We're talking about guilt by failing to speak up; their silence makes them complicit.

>A non-criminal black person has no control or responsibility over a random criminal black person.

Exactly. It's not like we can kick people out of a race like it's a profession. Though I think that would make a very useful feature in a comedy plot.

This is such a flaccid and unsatisfying reply. But really, what can you say when your initial comment was so throughly dismantled?
you're right i have changed my opinions about my father, my brothers, my cousins, and many of my friends, because of a hacker news dismantling. i have now realized they are of course statistically thugs who have no interest in protecting citizens.
My cousin successfully sued because he suffered constant racist treatment and was passed over for several promotions that went to less qualified and less experienced white men. He subsequently had to move out of the county because the harassment only escalated after he quit. I'll be sure to let him know that he just ran into a few bad apples, but for some reason he was not keen to try again elsewhere.
I know some cops in Seattle PD who routinely refer to people in the (minority) communities they police as "subhuman scum" and wish they wouldn't have so many limitations of use of force.

They seem to be doing pretty well career-wise, too, so it seems that this is not an uncommon sentiment there.

sorry i dont want to get shot
It's also funny to me that police apologists use the "few bad apples" theory, when the full saying is "a few bad apples can spoil the barrel". The saying is about how having a few bad people will usually corrupt the rest.

And the "circling the wagons" phenomenon you mention is exactly an example of this. The so-called "good cops" rarely speak up when their colleagues are doing horrible things. It's disgusting. Those who are silent are complicit.

> who committed their lives to your safety

Federal courts, including the Supreme Court, have repeatedly held that police have no duty to provide protection to citizens in general.

If police were committing their lives to our safety, why would they use their limited funding pursuing court cases to affirm the opposite?

Schrodinger's Duty: It only exists when the person feels like they might want to do it hypothetically.
You're absolutely right, there are some good cops. But what happens to them? Here's one example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft

Consider that the guys entire management chain was involved in the attempt to forcibly institutionalize him, and numerous rank and file police officers as well. And not a single one of them spoke in his defense.

Based on this anecdote, what would you say the ratio of good vs bad cops is in NYPD?

THe "thin blue line" that keeps otherwise good cops from snitching on bad cops is the whole issue. You won't go far as a cop if your intention is to root out corruption.

Did you know, in the US it is possible to be overqualified to be a cop, if you are too smart? The system wants jackbooted thugs, rather than intelligent policing.

I don't think some larger system wants cops ignorant, as much as it's the dynamics of corrupt self-preservation.

If corrupt sheriff Moe Carpaio is accepting bribes or selling drugs out of the evidence locker, Moe needs to hire juniors who are less likely to blow the whistle. Much of that involves in trapping them into the perpetuating cycle of crime, and that's easier when they don't have lots of other employment options.

Awww the criminals in the largest gang of the USA might get upset?

Tough fucking luck.

It's frankly disgusting how many people in this thread are willing to embrace prejudice as soon as it's prejudice against a group they don't like. Turns out that the lesson people learned from years of social pressure to not pick on minorities wasn't "prejudice is wrong", but rather "ok we can pick on groups but just not these ones".
We shouldn't pick on minorities because the attributes that make them a minority have nothing to do with anything worthy of scorn or... well, anything negative at all.

Police extensively abuse their power, and even the so-called "good" cops rarely speak up against their fellow officers when they do awful things. It's not prejudice to state established facts and patterns of behavior.