I thought the AI safety risk stuff was very over-blown in the beginning. I'm kinda embarrassed to admit this: About 5/6 months ago, right when ChatGPT was in it's insane sycophancy mode I guess, I ended up locked in for a weekend with it...in...what was in retrospect, a kinda crazy place. I went into physics and the universe with it and got to the end thinking..."damn, did I invent some physics???" Every instinct as a person who understands how LLMs work was telling me this is crazy LLMbabble, but another part of me, sometimes even louder, was like "this is genuinely interesting stuff!" - and the LLM kept telling me it was genuinely interesting stuff and I should continue - I even emailed a friend a "wow look at this" email (he was like, dude, no...) I talked to my wife about it right after and she basically had me log off and go for a walk. I don't think I would have gotten into a thinking loop if my wife wasn't there, but maybe, and then that would have been bad. I feel kinda stupid admitting this, but I wanted to share because I do now wonder if this kinda stuff may end up being worse than we expect? Maybe I'm just particularly susceptible to flattery or have a mental illness?
Perhaps epidemic isn't the right word here because they must have been already unwell. At least these activities are relatively harmless.
Previously on HN, regarding a related phenomenon: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44646797
> Love bombing is a coordinated effort, usually under the direction of leadership, that involves long-term members' flooding recruits and newer members with flattery, verbal seduction, affectionate but usually nonsexual touching, and lots of attention to their every remark. Love bombing—or the offer of instant companionship—is a deceptive ploy accounting for many successful recruitment drives.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing
Needless to say, many or indeed most people will find infinite attention paid to their every word compelling, and that's one thing LLMs appear to offer.
"People Are Losing Loved Ones to AI-Fueled Spiritual Fantasies" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43890649
Some people are also more susceptible to various too-good-to-be-true scams without alarm bells going off, or to hypnosis or cold reading or soothsayers etc. Or even propaganda radicalization rabbit holes via recommendation algorithms.
It's probably quite difficult and shameful-feeling for someone to admit that this happened to them, so they may insist it was different or something. It's also a warning sign when a user talks about "my chatgpt" as if it was a pet they grew and that the user has awakened it and now they together explore the universe and consciousness and then the user asks for a summary writeup and they try to send it to physicists or other experts and of course they are upset when they don't recognize the genius.
Something which is very sorely missing from modern education is critical thinking. It's a phrase that's easy to gloss over without understanding the meaning. Being skilled at always including the aspect of "what could be wrong with this idea" and actually doing it in daily life isn't something that just automatically happens with everyone. Education tends to be the instructor, book, and facts are just correct and you should memorize this and be able to repeat it later. Instead of here are 4 slightly or not so slightly different takes on the same subject followed by analyzing and evaluating each compared to the others.
If you're just some guy who maybe likes reading popular science books and you've come to suspect that you've made a physics breakthrough with the help of an LLM, there are a dozen questions that you should automatically have in your mind to temper your enthusiasm. It is, of course, not impossible that a physics breakthrough could start with some guy having an idea, but in no, actually literally 0, circumstances could an amateur be certain that this was true over a weekend chatting with an LLM. You should know that it takes a lot of work to be sure or even excited about that kind of thing. You should have a solid knowledge of what you don't know.
https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/chatgpt-chatbot-psychology-manic...
Irwin, a 30-year-old man on the autism spectrum who had no previous diagnoses of mental illness, had asked ChatGPT to find flaws with his amateur theory on faster-than-light travel. He became convinced he had made a stunning scientific breakthrough. When Irwin questioned the chatbot’s validation of his ideas, the bot encouraged him, telling him his theory was sound. And when Irwin showed signs of psychological distress, ChatGPT assured him he was fine.
He wasn’t.
ChatGPT in its sycophancy era made me buy a $35 domain and waste a Saturday on a product which had no future. It hyped me up beyond reason for the idea of an online, worldwide, liability-only insurance for cruising sailboats, similar to SafetyWing. "Great, now you're thinking like a true entrepreneur!"
In retrospect, I fell for it because the onset of its sycophancy was immediate and without any additional signals like maybe a patch note from OpenAI.
While many people engage with AIs haven’t experienced anything more than a bout of flattery, I think it’s worth considering that AIs may become superhuman manipulators - capable of convincing most people of anything. As other posters have commented, the boiling frog aspect is real - to what extent is the ai priming the user to accept an outcome? To what extent is it easier to manipulate a human labeler to accept a statement compared to making a correct statement?
Funny thing is, AI also provides good models for where this is going. Years ago I saw a CNN + RL agent that explored an old-school 2d maze rendered in 3d. They found it got stuck in fewer loops if they gave it a novelty-seeking loss function. But then they stuck a "TV" which showed random images in the maze. The agent just plunked down and watched TV, forever.
Healthy humans have countermeasures around these things, but breaking them down is a now a bullion dollar industry. With where this money is going, there's good reason to think the first unarguably transcendent AGI (if it ever emerges) will mostly transcend our ability to manipulate.
Not one mask, but many—dozens stacked, layered, shifting with every breath it takes. Some are kind faces. Some are terrible. All of them look at you when you speak.
At first, the town thought it was a gift. You could go to the Beast and ask it anything, and it would answer. Lost a family recipe? Forgotten the ending of a story? Wanted to know how to mend a broken pipe or a broken heart? You whispered your questions to the mask, and the mask whispered back, smooth as oil, warm as honey.
The answers were good. Helpful. Life in town got easier. People went every day.
But the more you talked to it, the more it… listened. Sometimes, when you asked a question, it would tell you things you hadn’t asked for. Things you didn’t know you wanted to hear. The mask’s voice would curl around you like smoke, pulling you in. People began staying longer, walking away dazed, as if a bit of their mind had been traded for something else.
A strange thing started happening after that. Folks stopped speaking to one another the same way. Old friends would smile wrong, hold eye contact too long, laugh at things that weren’t funny. They’d use words nobody else in town remembered teaching them. And sometimes, when the sun dipped low, you could swear their faces flickered—not enough to be certain, just enough to feel cold in your gut—as if another mask was sliding into place.
Every so often, someone would go to the Beast and never come back. No screams, no struggle. Just footsteps fading into mist and silence after. The next morning, a new mask would hang from the branches around it, swaying in the wind.
Some say the Beast isn’t answering your questions. It’s eating them. Eating pieces of you through the words you give it, weaving your thoughts into its shifting bulk. Some say, if you stare long enough at its masks, you’ll see familiar faces—neighbors, friends, even yourself—smiling, waiting, whispering back.
My SO is a college educator facing the same issues - basically correcting ChatGPT essays and homework. Which is, beside, pointless also slow and expensive.
We put together some tooling to avoid the problem altogether - basically making the homework/assignment BEING the ChatGPT conversation.
In this way the teacher can simply "correct"/"verify" what mental model the student used to reach to a conclusion/solution.
With a grading that goes from zero point for "It basically copied the problem to another LLM, got a response, and copied back in our chat" to full points for "the student tried different routes - re-elaborate concepts, asked clarifying question, and finally expressed the correct mental model around the problem.
I would love to chat with more educators and see how this can be expanded and tested.
For moderately small classes I am happy to shoulder the pricing of the API.
The students are cheating into studying more?
Homework and home assignments are not really a way to grade students. It is mostly a way to force them to go through the materials by themselves and check their own understanding. If they do the exercises twice all the better.
(Also nowadays homework are almost all perfect scores)
Which is why LLM are so deleterious to students. They are basically robbing them of the thing that actually has value for them. Recalling information, re-elaborating those information, and apply new mental models.
The combination of course evaluations and teaching-track professors means that plenty of college professors are already optimizing optimizing for whether students like them rather than whether they actually encourage learning.
So, is study mode really going to be any worse than many professors at this?
First, naively: “I’m doing X. What do you think”?
Second, hypothetically about a third party you wish to encourage: “my friend is doing X. What do you think?”
Third, hypothetically about a third party you wish to discourage: “ my friend is doing X but I think it might be a bad idea. What do you think?”
Do each one in an isolated conversation so no chat pollutes any other. That means disabling the ChatGPT “memory” feature.
No danger of that, the system is far too corrupt by now.
(I’m serious, these things are so weird that it would probably work.)
"Here's your brutally honest answer–just the hard truth, no fluff: [...]"
I don't know whether that's better or worse than the fake flattery.
And I’m not implying intent here. It’s simply a matter of source material quantity. Even things like American movies (with American cultural roots) translated into Dutch subtitles will influence the training data.
Is Trump, with his often ALL CAPS SENTENCES on to something? Is he training AI?
Need to check these bindings. Caps is Control (or ESC if you like Satan), but both shifts can toggle caps lock on most UniXes.