Item — HN Reader

>>All these additives and processes seem to be reasonably safe given what we currently believe to know, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any yet unknown side effects.

Should we also avoid ice cream because for all we know, it may have unintended side effects?

1 comments

Right, because freezing something is totally comparable to using radiation or anorganic chemicals.

Or are you referring to questionable stuff in ice cream like carrageenan?

You're not getting it. You are throwing out all of these unfounded accusations not based on anything at all and you still expect us to take you seriously. You're engaging in fear-mongering and we're calling you on it.

> using radiation or anorganic chemicals.

This is fear-mongering unless you can actually point to reasonable problems such things might cause.

> questionable stuff in ice cream like carrageenan

Carrageenan is fine when used in the way the regulations dictate. Or do you have actual evidence otherwise?

I think you have it backwards. Being cautious is not fear-mongering. Do I think anything FDA approved will kill me directly? No. But I think the testing protocol is flawed. As far as I know, long term effect safety studies are only done on animal models. And the benchmark is always illness or disease, not optimal health. Nobody can ask a rat how it feels. And then there's the issue of synergistic effects. The FDA only studies substances in isolation, but there might be adverse effects that only occur if a substance reacts with another substance or process.

So, in short, if I can choose between a product that is "natural" or a product that has mystery substance X in it, I'd choose the natural one, even if it means I have to pay a little more. I'd also prefer it that product B is labelled in a way that I can tell it contains mystery substance X, so that I can make that decision. Is that fear-mongering? I don't think so.

Oh, and regarding carrageenan: It's not evidence, but I have personal experience that it makes my skin flare up, both when I ingest it and when I use it topically (shampoo for example). I later found out that the same stuff is used to provoke inflammation in animal experiments [1]. Do I still eat it from time to time? Yes, Ben & Jerry's is too delicious. But I feel better when I eat Haagen Dasz "5", which has none of the funky stuff.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrageenan#Food_and_other_dome...

>>As far as I know, long term effect safety studies are only done on animal models. And the benchmark is always illness or disease, not optimal health.

We know for a fact that ice cream is bad for "optimal health." It can cause tooth cavities, sore throat, stomach aches, obesity and diabetes. Yet we still eat it because it tastes good.

> But I think the testing protocol is flawed. As far as I know, long term effect safety studies are only done on animal models. And the benchmark is always illness or disease, not optimal health. Nobody can ask a rat how it feels. And then there's the issue of synergistic effects. The FDA only studies substances in isolation, but there might be adverse effects that only occur if a substance reacts with another substance or process.

All of this does sound rational, but without any specific reasons to be concerned it's pointless to spin stories like this. Why? Because we can say the same stuff about anything else on Earth. Singling out some foods and food components for this treatment is illogical.

> if I can choose between a product that is "natural" or a product that has mystery substance X in it, I'd choose the natural one

Carrageenan is not a mystery. It is to you, sure, because you don't educate yourself very well, but it isn't a mystery to the rest of us.

> I'd also prefer it that product B is labelled in a way that I can tell it contains mystery substance X

I'd like it if 'dietary supplements' were held to the same standards as the actual medicines they're advertised as being able to replace, but that hasn't happened.

And you're wrong: Foods have ingredients lists. Carrageenan is one of the things they have to mention. Ah, but that only applies to processed foods, and not 'natural' foods, where you don't know what they contain.

> I have personal experience that it makes my skin flare up, both when I ingest it and when I use it topically (shampoo for example).

Really. Assuming you're not lying or mistaken, you're one of a very, very small number of people who has a bad reaction to carrageenan in those products.

> I feel better when I eat Haagen Dasz "5", which has none of the funky stuff.

Probably because you know it doesn't contain (what you consider to be) funky stuff.

How about this: There are people who think casein, a protein naturally found in milk, is toxic to humans. How would you convince one of those people that consuming casein is not a problem, if one of them tried to talk you out of eating ice cream?