Item — HN Reader

For centuries, in Bulgaria, since Roman times, people have been bathing in slightly radioactive water to treat osteoarthritis. I'm not sure how this is news or an invention when it's been around for centuries and has been the standard of care in Bulgaria for decades. There are sanatoriums and spa centers in Pavel Banya, Bulgaria [0], and I know many friends who go there once or twice a year for treatments and swear they couldn't live without them!

[0]: https://pavelbanyagrand.com/en/the-healing-mineral-water-in-...

5 comments

Just because something has been done for hundreds of years does not mean it has been scientifically shown to actually do more than placebo. A lot of people do a lot of stuff that has been proven to do nothing detectable, and they still swear by it.

"It has been done for hundreds of years" isn't a good argument. There is a reason "Appeal to tradition" is one of the more famous logical fallacies.

Also: The radiation doses used in this trial are very likely much, much higher than what you would get from such a bath in radioactive water (otherwise the water would be so radioactive that staying in there or even drinking it would kill you very quickly), so this doesn't really tell us anything about whether the traditional modalities do anything or not. And yes, stuff like that also exists in Austria with Radon caves, and many other places.

Modern medicine is hardly logical where therapies are concerned. There is often not any coherent theory of why a therapy works and yet it may be commonly used in treatments. If you examine the literature supplied with your drugs, it often states "exact mechanism of action is unknown but yada yada". This is why there are double blind studies in medicine. Absent a theory, this is the only way to gauge the effectiveness of a therapy. Hence, if bathing in slightly radioactive waters has provided beneficial to people over a long period of time, you can't dismiss it as "appealing to tradition". It may need validation with a study but can't be ignored as just tradition.

The fact that it's been done over a long period of time does not prove that it's beneficial. As you say, that's why there are double-blind studies. If the only evidence of benefit is that it's been done for a long time, that literally is just tradition. It's worth looking into it to see if it works, but there are plenty of traditional remedies with long histories that don't.

Good point! Interestingly there is evidence that at least some life forms appear to benefit from 'highly radioactive' water.

https://hal.science/hal-03025146v1/file/Petit%20et%20al%2020...

"Direct Meta-Analyses Reveal Unexpected Microbial Life in the Highly Radioactive Water of an Operating Nuclear Reactor Core"

https://journals.asm.org/doi/pdf/10.1128/spectrum.01995-22

"Culturomics of Bacteria from Radon-Saturated Water of the World’s Oldest Radium Mine"

perhaps an experiment has verbally controlled its inputs and outputs in analyzing the effect of an independant variable upon a dependant variable. this does not imply that that those inputs and outputs were actually controlled for , nor does it imply that any found correlations are inherently causative. between folk wisdom that kinda works vs. corporate advice that also kinda works but happens to make someone a huge profit ....... ill take the thermal baths first

> The mineral water in Pavel Banya is rich in the chemical element radon

> The mineral takes care of having radiant and beautiful skin, healthy bones and, of course, excellent brain functions.

Ah, yes, radiant skin.

There are also old radon baths in Jachymov in Czech republic working on same principle. Exactly for same primary purpose - problems with joints and bones.

Then communists made local uranium mines/gulags for 'enemies of the state' which was basically a prolonged death sentence, many were just beaten to death or died from cold/starvation.

I'm not clear on what the second paragraph is adding to your example in the first.

It's a related and important historical fact that is not well known outside of Czechia. Why not share it with wider audience when given a chance.

Off topic: I just learned a couple weeks ago that Czechia and Czech Republic are both acceptable names for the country.

Similar treatments exist without the radioactive water.

I heard some Amish talking about their parents taking a trip to Montana to visit the radon mines for arthritis.

An example here: https://www.radonmine.com/facility/

There's quite a few out that way.