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Installing any app I want outside the Play Store was the primary reason I decided to go with Android, despite most of the people I know using iPhones. If I can't do this anymore, I may as well switch and be able to use iMessage and FaceTime with them.
Android is losing a unique selling point. This will have an impact on what a techie may recommend to a non-techie in the future, because everything is beige now.

I have the feeling Google has given up on using nerds as beachheads. The market is saturated enough and they don't need us anymore to do grass roots spreading of their products. It's the same with Youtube. As long as there were enough people who were unencumbered by ads because of their ad block and kept spreading links, the importance of Youtube was growing. After market saturation that vehicle isn't necessary anymore and they can squeeze them out.

F-droid routinely delivers me higher quality, more reliable apps that do exactly what I need then to do too.

It's become my go-to for "I need a utility for X task".

>I may as well switch and be able to use iMessage and FaceTime with them

I, too, love vendor lockin.

Check UbuntuTouch, it's really a nice third option. The OS is refreshing and the dev community active.

We do not have to choose the lesser of two evils this time.

I just switched to the iPhone with the new cycle, explicitly because of this news.

Sideloading was the killer feature for me as well.

Then you'd be rewarding the company that pioneered and normalized taking away these rights. The next rights you'll lose will probably originate on Apple again years before Google takes them away too.
You can still install apps outside the play store, but the developer does need to verify their signing information. Effectively this means that any app you install must have a paper trail to the originating developer, even if its not on the app store. On one hand, I can see the need for this to track down virus creators, but on the other, it provides Google transparency and control over side loaded app. It IS a concerning move, but currently this is far from 'killing' non-appstore apps for most of the market.
Switching to iPhone will make it even more obvious there is an unhealthy monopoly, so that's nice. If there's no good reason to choose Android, why not?
"If I can't do this anymore..."

How will Google force Android users to "update" so sideloadinng can be prevented

Non-updated versions of Android running non-updated versions of sideloaded apps will not have the restriction

Another example of how not every "update" is for "security" and "updates" should be optional

The computer owner chooses one version of an operating system, e.g., "I chose Android because I can sideload any app", but by allowing automatic updates, without reviewing them first, the computer owner agrees to let the operating system vendor change the software remotely to anything the vendor chooses. The computer owner goes along with whatever the vendor decides, letting the vendor take them for a ride

If the operating system gets _worse_ in the opinion of the computer owner, if it fails to meet their needs, e.g., "sideloading", then that's too bad. The computer owner chose one version of Android, but by subscribing to "automatic updates" they effectively chose all future versions as well

This is why I prefer BSD UNIX-like operating system projects where I can choose to update or not to update. Unlike the hypothetical Android user, the project does not decide for me

HN replies may try to draw attention to "security" and away from "sideloading restriction". However there is no option to accept "security updates" while rejecting "sideloading restriction updates". According to the so-called "tech" companies that conduct data collection and surveillance as a "business model" through free, auto-updated software, every update, no matter what it contains, is deemed essential and critical for "security"

Online commentators seem to agree that the computer owner should have the choice to install or not install _any_ software outside the "app store", so-called "sideloading". Perhaps this freedom to choose whether to install or not install software should also apply to operating system "updates"

Antitrust action is badly needed in this area. It is ridiculous that I need permission from my device manufacturer to install software on hardware I own. There is no viable alternative than to live in Apple and Google’s ecosystems. This duopoly cannot be allowed to keep this much control of the mobile platforms.
The funny thing here: They have active spyware and malware on their app store. They go by vague offical sounding names like "Gallery" and "Messages" "Text Messages"

I've reported it and that goes to an google form where the app stays up. I've even gone farenough where I've escalated through internal Google contacts. Nothing is done. It's not sideloading that's the issue.

It's google. This is a hostile behavior to all users of the devices and developers of their platform.

_--

My thoughts on where this might go:

We're getting into an era where there are organizations that are violently hostile to your device and they demand that. These people believe that the device you paid for and the service you paid for is theirs.

I.e. mobile ids from governments, which may introduce client side scanning. More so, theres a hostile push for "age verification" which would lean on the Play integrity chain. Want to find out who does this? Look into Magisck on reddit and the apps people have difficultly using. This is not a case of "someone wants to hack something".. it's all about control.

If you're watching the Root/third party space.. right now there are issues running apps. Some apps scan for "SuperSU" app and will refuse to run. (As in they're not sandboxed)

We need to stop calling it "sideloading", we should call it freely installing software. The term "sideloading" makes it sound shady and hacky when in reality it is what we have been able to do on our computers since forever. These are not phones, they are computers shaped like phones, computer which we fully bought with our money, and I we shall install what we want on our own computers.
If you focus on the fact that Google fraudulently marketed an operating system that allows users to run any software they like (until they successfully drove other open options out of the marketplace) you have all the legal justification you need to force Google to back down.
The Android Developer Blog called it "an ID check at the airport which confirms a traveler's identity but is separate from the security screening of their bags."

From the mouths of rubes, I guess. The ID check at the airport has zero to do with safety or security and everything to do with the airlines' business model (no secondary market for tickets), enforced by government.

I know this is side topic but if buying the Android or iPhone hardware gives us hardware we don't control, then what alternatives we realistically have? I do own pinephone (and I was recently reading that they kinda staled with development of new phones hardware), I know about librem.. is there anything else on the market?
I hope that F-Droid, the FSF or anything like that will initiate a complaint in US or EU. I would happily give a fund for that purpose.
There's an overarching lesson that FLOSS needs to learn from the last fifteen years:

If it's not copyleft, it's not free. Also, it's more than just a legal classification of IP law, it's an ethos. I don't care how "free" your underlying OS is, if most of the userland is proprietary and the only way to really effectively use the software on consumer hardware is to use a megacorp's implementation of it and to bow to their whims, it might as well be Microsoft Windows.

This is why I always thought Android never really was Linux. Sure, it has a Linux kernel, but that kernel just exists to run a bunch of software in a way that you have no real control over.

This is laying the groundwork for mandatory software. Soon after this browsers and messengers will be required to install tracking components to be included in the app stores or approved for sideloading.

This is how the surveillance blob will get around the huge backlash to Apple's mandatory on-device child abuse scanning, close off any avenues to escape it before re-introducing mandatory on-device spying.

> This logic is flawed: historically, we've seen malware slip through the Play Store—signed and “verified”—several times.

Yeah, check for all the fake sora apps in the play store.

Yes, it's a very unfriendly decision by Google.

However, I don't think they haven't measured the number of users installing apps outside of the Play store. May be they just don't care about the small % of total users who are a large % here on HN.

This is a part of a bigger trend, Cory Doctorow spoke about 13 years ago in his "The coming war on general computing": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUEvRyemKSg

And this will creep out to the major desktop systems too, Apple is doing it with their stupid "non-verified app" and Windows looks more likely to do so with their "need Microsoft account to login" to windows.

This is the beginning of the end of Android.

Google have over-reached.

It is unacceptable to software developers to be unable to install software on their own phones, and this will lead to a successor to Android.

It will take time, but it will now happen.

My hope is that this lets some more people wake up and finally make Linux on the smartphone a reality.
Can anyone say exactly what this would mean for F-Droid? For instance, not that I want this to happen but if F-Droid really wanted, they could conceivably get verified developer status.

And then they could offer apps, which (again I don't want this, just asking), could also be distributed if verified. F-Droid would have to be verified and would only be able to distribute apps from developers that are also verified.

And so conceivably you could still install apps from outside the Play store if they're verified. Unless the Play store is administering verification.

I'm not saying that would work, in fact, I think in practice it wouldn't. I'm just trying to play out what that would look like to understand the specifics of how F-Droid is being effectively dismantled. But I'm all ears if someone has a different interpretation about how F-Droid lives through this. It would seem that it would only survive on degoogled phones.

If nothing prevents this from happening, then when it does happen, I will make it a point to carry nothing but a laptop and a dumb phone, maybe a hotspot. If I need something from the internet, I will get it before the trip. If I can't get it on the trip, and forgot to beforehand, I will either find another way, or not do whatever it is.

I don't know why I don't do that now, honestly. Sounds pretty interesting.

Realistically, what can be done to stop this?

In my eyes, Google is violating my rights because I did not agree to them stopping independent installation. I view them pushing this update as criminal vandalism.

They saw apple getting away with it under the DMA so they're just doing the same. You can't do anything about it.
People choose Android because they need / want more control over their system. If Google continues to remove that control, they lose the only thing that gives their OS an edge.
Android limits on "installing" software of your choice on your own consumer hardware are the most anti-consumer move yet.

Let's call it what it is. Attack on what ownership of our stuff means.

It's a puzzle to me how Google moves to restrain app install out of its store, while Apple loses in court for similar practices.
A while ago I implemented some little feature I wanted for an open source app, and tested it on my phone. Only Android development I've ever done, a few hours' work: I wasn't going to get certified as an official Android developer for it. With this, I wouldn't be able to do it? Or rather I could, but could only test with the Android Studio emulator or similar?

Similarly if I just wanted to make something for myself, not distribute it at all, I know have to register with this program just to install my thing on my own phone? I don't think even Apple goes that far?

If you can't install software on your own device, you don't own it.

You are renting a completely government and corporate controlled piece of hardware.

   git clone
   repo init
   make lunch
   "Can’t get more open source than that!"
Man that seems like a long time ago, eh?
As someone who doesn't really care about apps, if I wanted to move away from Android what phones and OSs are worth considering?
This will shape the future of computing with how Apple being treated as the reference for the whole industry. (I know this is Google here. But our reference devices are iDevices that was unfortunately always locked in the Apple provisioned codesign)

Our “pocket” computers are locked in. The next computing platform will be more wearable such as AR glasses. We’re expected to have 3 players in the upcoming iteration - Apple, Google. Meta due to vivid services needed for valuable glasses services. Meta already shows how you don’t really own the device by what’s running on it. It’ll be very sad if next generations most used form of computing will be able to run only border-controlled software.

I have this profound disgusting feeling when I think I'm going to have to ask Google to validate which app I am allowed to install on the phone I paid freaking money to get !

This is not about open source, the government being able to ban apps, or anything else but a principle.

I'm not a child and Google is definitely not an authority respectable enough to tell me what I can't install. They have lied, been sued countless times, had to pay billions of fines,..

At this point, there are 2 alternatives : iphone, grapheneos (don't even start with Linux phone).

Iphone suck just as bad on that matter but at least the software is more suited to professionals, it's not as half ass done as Google software.

Grapheneos, it runs just fine 99% of the time but these last 1% can be so annoying. Like how they disable face unlock, or how some apps refuse to work because of play integrity.

My last hope is that the eu will come once again to the rescue and bring the mfcker at Google who came up with this idea back to earth.

That or ban Google Android version and make an European Android alternative funded and developed by a consortium of tech companies that want to sell phone in Europe.

After all, Europe is even a more interesting market than the usa.

I was a big proponent of the nexus phones and Google's efforts in the space, but I am hundred percent not an android fan anymore.

There's a study on positive or destructive workers, from a business management pov. The finding was that the "bad" employees and the "good" are often the same people: a "good" employee scorned becomes the worst type of employee.

I think Google will be discovering some variant of this from their previous fandom, and it will be too late.

Back in "ye olden days" (TM) sideloading was just called "running software". I think it's very unfortunate that the authors of the article propagate this "sideloading" framing.
Sounds like we need either a viable alternative or a next thing.

The next thing will probably be AR glasses and we could use some alternatives to Meta and Google and Apple.

I really would love to get rid of everything related to Google, Microsoft and Apple. Too bad I am completely depending on them. Business wise and privately. I wish I would wake up tomorrow with a Linux phone with no crippleware, no notifications, no crappy animations, no limits, no nothing.
Of course as rubbish as this is, it could spawn a bunch of new commercial app stores and trigger competition there.

My understanding is side loading is only limited if play services are installed and Google mandates it.

This may give some room to some smaller phone makers to launch less encumbered phones.

I think F-Droid will have to go the ADB route, maybe have a desktop interface to wirelessly ADB install APKs to your devices... could be an awesome way to manage apps on multiple devices! I currently have a powershell script to do all that myself.
If users are drawn to the "tree of the knowledge of adb install" then your first assumption should be that the menu in the walled garden is unsatisfactory, not the designs of a serpent.
Let's make life harder for the only mobile app store (F-Droid) that hasn't had any malware on it since it's inception - someone at Google probably.
I imagine custom ROMs would be able to work around this restriction, but I wonder if simply rooting the phone would also allow you to switch it off?
The Play Store should be taken away from Google and setup as a non profit to facilitate serving copies of software people upload.
Android is signalling that users don't own their phone anymore.

Maybe there will be options arriving in the market to re-introduce this concept.

with all these folding phones and e-ink mobile sized e-readers having gone through several generations, I'm beginning to think the next big kickstarter[0] is a dumb e-ink phone/wifi modem connected as a 5g modem to an amoled linux tablet.

[0] No royalties required if you pick up my "fantastic" idea, just send me a free device