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The body positivity movement when it was more about people not being ashamed for having conditions (amputations, eczema, vitiligo, etc.) was a good movement. It was about accepting people for their body that they had no control of. It was a bit tumblr-y but it had its heart in the right place at the start. It was kind of hijacked by these fat activists that wanted to convince people that being 400 pounds was not just okay, it was good. Then social graces forced people to go along nod politely despite everyone disagreeing.
This is precisely how I felt. Being obese is not, nor ever, ok. The body positive movement around obesity should have been to help people to 1) nto feel ashamed at being obese, but also 2) to reduce the negativity around it and turn that into positive reinforcement for healthy eating. Instead it became a dogmatic, self righteous movement of encouragement to continue to live that way because others judged it negatively.
No one should be harassed or made to feel bad by the way they look, but at the same time, it's not wrong to want others to be healthy.
I mean… I’d very much push back here.
GLP-1 drugs have basically thrown out the idiotic idea that people were fat because they were sloths or gluttons. Our genetic and epigenetic predispositions very obviously played a huge role in whether on not people became obese. Body positivity was a reasonable coping mechanism for folks who drew the short straw at birth or in youth, and would never be able to have the beauty our society holds above almost everything.
Not we have a drug that fixes these predispositions. Yay! It’s basically the equivalent of “teeth positivity” going away after the advent of braces. The point was about helping people cope in an uncaring world… and then there not needing a coping mechanism after the problem people were coping with gets solved.
I realize this is a nuanced discussion, but could you clarify the predispositions you're referring to? I'm asking because there are people who blame obesity on a predisposition to hunger (obese people have a stronger hunger drive than thin people) but also people who blame it on a predisposition to weight gain, meaning that obese people can eat the same amount of food as thin people and still be obese. Are you saying GLP-1 drugs have refuted the idea of the latter?
My hypothesis is that GLP-1 drugs are basically counteracting the effects of various chemicals interfering with the natural processes of our endocrine system. I think something (microplastics, chemicals in the water, hormones, ultraprocessed food, etc) is interfering with how GLP-1 is interacting with our body in the first place. So the GLP-1 Drugs is helping bring this back to normal. I think different people due to genetic differences are affected by these environmental factors differently, that's why two people can both eat the same food and one is still starving and one is full.
Always struck me as odd. We would not encourage an alcoholism positivity movement.
> We would not encourage an alcoholism positivity movement.
Sure we would. James Bond movies? Frat parties?
Maybe Bond, he's a casual day drinker which aligns with alcoholism. The frat thing is more about binge drinking than alcoholism, which is not exactly the same thing. Binge drinking can cause alcoholism in the long run, but is inherently problematic even if it doesn't reach the point of developing a physical dependence.
To some extent American culture does glorify binge drinking, but I don't think the same is true of alcoholism. People brag about how much they drank at the party last night, but they feel shame about starting the morning with a few drinks.
Can you clarify which description of body positivity struck you as odd?
I’m fairly certain that the “odd” behaviour is that of the extremists who hijacked the original concept to promote the idea that being fat is good.
I’d consider calling it “odd” to be an understatement. I always thought such extreme positions were a bizarre denial of the negative impacts that obesity can have on personal well-being and quality of life. Having said that, I only ever encountered such views on the Internet; never in real life.
https://archive.ph/MkOyJ
And now the pendulum swings to the other extreme with very popular female celebrities being openly anorexic, normalizing the terminal cancer patient look. Just pay a few thousand per year and you can effortlessly look almost dead, too.
I've no problem with body positivity. Celebrating a skinny person gaining a few pounds of muscle after dedicating themselves to working out intensely or a fat person making notable progress on their weight loss journey is what we should do. Celebrate those who set goals and work their asses off to achieve them.
What I have a problem with, is the "healthy at any size" bullshit. Especially those who use extreme outliers as their rationale - like if you see someone who says that they are healthy at 350 pounds because there's a lineman in the NFL who is their same height and weight. It's like, that person is deliberately carrying extra weight due to their job, and they can likely put up absurd numbers in the weight room, like a 600+ pound squat or a 400+ pound bench press.
What changed is that it’s effectively impossible not to pretend there was ever a fair playing field for obesity. A pill suddenly fixes obesity in a huge number of people. No need a cultural coping mechanism when the disease can be effectively cured for the vast majority of folks who have suffered from it.
I cant read the article (paywall) , but does it talk about any side effects , I am just worried we are celebrating a drug, that might have serious side effects
I am sure at some point a drug will be perfected, but the promotion of this drugs goes way beyond spreading the awareness that excess weight is a health risk, it feels political, and used as an excuse to attack leftist ideas
balance is everything, your body, your choice, move, eat healthy .. and only use proven drugs, and preferably use drugs as a last resort
So last word talk to your doctor about ozempic, if you are considering using it
"People no longer feel obliged to pretend there’s something shameful about wanting to be thinner."
Or the notion that being morbidly obese is healthy.
I didn't mind "body positivity" too much, it was more "healthy at any size" that I found objectionable.
If you as an adult want to eat to excess (or drink, or smoke), feel free (within reason - don't encroach on my economy airline seat) and happily accepts that they might shorten their life by doing so, then have at it. Just don't pretend it's a healthy lifestyle choice.
What got to me was when my own doctor was telling me I was "healthy at any size" when I was telling her about things like plantar fasciitis in my feet that clearly got worse as I gained weight. Like, it would be one thing if I told her I felt like a million bucks and my labs were excellent and I was a little bit big. But I was in there explicitly telling her that I was NOT healthy at my size.
I eventually got a better doctor and a dietitian and lost 50 lbs by changing my macros to focus on getting enough protein, fat, and fiber, which finally curbed my hunger, and wouldn't you know it, my feet feel better.
Even body positivity goes way too far for me. If it were only adults in play that would be different, but the rise of "body positivity" coincided with a massive increase in child obesity, and there's a strong connection between the eating/health habits of parents and the health outcomes of their children.
body positivity was a very much needed reaction to the mass media starvation-chic obsession of the 2000s. Kate Winslet in Titanic, Jessica Simpson and Britney Spears in the mid 2000s were all widely mocked and panned for being fat whales despite being completely normal looking.
> the rise of "body positivity" coincided with a massive increase in child obesity
The obesity epidemic is yet another instance of “What changed in America in 1971?” that can’t be attributed to body positivity, a movement that didn’t really get nationwide traction until the 90s.
>If you as an adult want to eat to excess
In fairness, there are plenty of conditions and imbalances that can cause weight gain besides "eating in excess"
>don't encroach on my economy airline seat
The things are so damn small that's going to happen regardless. They're not designed for big people (even healthy weighted ones)
Thermodynamics is undefeated, people cannot just manifest mass. It must enter through the mouth.
For those that want to stick with thermodynamics, imagine an organism that stores 1% of consumed calories as fat, and uses the other 99%, and that cannot - for whichever reason - turn fat back into calories.
Completely in accordance with thermodynamics, and yet, "just eat less" doesn't work.
> there are plenty of conditions and imbalances that can cause weight gain besides "eating in excess"
There are no fat children in those places in Africa where they go hungry. And I guarantee you a lot of people have conditions and imbalances there.
The cynic in me can imagine that the body positivity "movement" was secretly funded by the ABCD* companies.
How about "Plant Based!" Let's get some more grain into soup and milk!
I'm honestly surprised that sawdust is so far only in shredded cheese. No "tree milk" yet for my coffee?
* ADM Bunge Cargill Dreyfus
Ozempic is another quick fix. You're going to be thin, but if you don't put in the work lifting weights and eating protien you're just a younger old person with advanced sarcopenia. One fall and your hip shatters. It won't address any other inactivity related illnesses and comes with its own issues. Ex. Bladder not being able to handle bile etc. I get it for advance stage diabetics who have enough nerve issues to be at risk for sepsis and amputation, I don't think it's great for average joe who just wants an easy way to lose weight.
Why are you writing off eliminating obesity as something purely cosmetic? Obesity itself is the most costly affliction by far in the west. It increases all cause mortality, increases healthcare cost, and reduces outcomes for surgeries and rehabilitation after accidents. It reduces work efficiency, reduces lifespan, increases public infrastructure cost by requiring design for things like seatbelt extenders, large corridors for parking mobility scooters etc etc. It promotes food waste, increases energy usage... I could go on and on, but the general idea is that bigger people = bigger costs for everything.
Im not sure why theres such a diataste for just letting fat people take a pill/injection to lose weight. The current advice of telling them "lose weight fatty" is clearly not working on a societal level. When GLPs and naltrexone therapies become ubiquitous we are looking at vastly reduced healthcare costs.
There is also a good possibility that GLPs will kill the fast food industry, which means less fat kids, which means less fat adults.
I wouldn’t say people are writing off “eliminating obesity as something purely cosmetic”. Being obese is way worse than just a cosmetic issue.
But a world where literally millions of people are on a “lifetime drug” to reduce their bodyweight seems to be exactly what the big pharmaceutical companies are hoping for. They will make tens of billions of dollars every year if this is the case. Hell, there are endless commercials where middlemen (e.g., Ro) are hyping these drugs, telling you they can get you prescriptions, etc. If there wasn’t HUGE money in it, this wouldn’t be the case.
Yes, there are some people who have medical conditions that make weight loss very difficult. And these drugs can be a literal lifesaver for them. But for every one of them, there are dozens and dozens (or more) who simply make bad choices about food and exercise. Things that, if changed, would lead to a lifetime of improved health without any of the concerns or side effects of taking a drug forever. Our culture seems to be evolving to where it’s perfectly acceptable to translate “this is not easy” to “I can’t possibly be expected to do this, no matter how good it would be for me."
I’ve been accused of “hating fat people” for this take, but it’s the furthest thing from the truth. I encourage people to actually change their lives in a sustainable, healthy way, because I care about them. It’s not about shaming them.
Can you be “healthi-ER” taking these drugs than if you don’t exercise and eat too much and too many awful foods? Sure. But I’d prefer to see them EVEN healthier by treating their bodies better in every single case where that’s possible.
> But a world where literally millions of people are on a “lifetime drug” to reduce their bodyweight seems to be exactly what the big pharmaceutical companies are hoping for. They will make tens of billions of dollars every year if this is the case.
They (and other elements of our healthcare industry) already make a lot more than that on treating the side effects of widespread obesity.
"Obesity itself is the most costly affliction by far in the west"
But if people stopped killing themselves in their 60s and 70s, we'd have gobs of people living until their 80s and the cost for dementia and Cancer Care would be ginormous.
Where did I say it was cosmetic? At best you'll lose weight on it, but without forming good habits and lifting weights you're a candidate for muscle loss and related injuries (Example. Falling in tub and shattering hip). Once you're off ozempic, if you didn't form good habits, the weight gain is significant. You'll also put back on a lot of weight with a lower muscle mass. Again, I'm not sure where i said it was cosmetic.
The West =/= America
Sure it's not a cure-all, but for the overwhelming majority of people who are obese, being thin and not lifting weights would be an improvement health-wise.
If the alternative to using Ozempic is eating a healthy diet and exercising regularly, then sure, the latter is better, but the target population for it is people who have spent many years not eating healthy or exercising and who are unlikely to start in the near future.
Even if you're active, body fat is still a contest between food drive and will power, which vary widely between people based on genetics and upbringing. Realistically, people with very high food drive and easy access to junk food are going to struggle to maintain a healthy level of body fat even with an active lifestyle.
I know several people who lift weights three times a week, run for at least thirty minutes three times a week, and were still consistently 20-40 pounds overweight before Ozempic and similar drugs.
You can’t outwork a bad diet.
Exercise all you want, but for most people, if you eat garbage food in large quantities, you will be overweight.
I am exactly the same, btw. Most of my family was overweight when I was growing up. I was a fat kid, all the way through high school. Since then, I have been exercising consistently for 40+ years. Lifting weights, bicycling, walking every day, etc. But I still need to not just eat everything I want or I will gain weight. I try to avoid junk food, fast food, eating out, MOST days. Personally, I do one “cheat day” per week (see Tim Ferris’ Slow Carb diet for roughly the idea, although I’m not militant about the foods he says are ok, etc.).
I’m around 20% bodyfat at 5’10” in my early 60s, so I could use to drop 5-10 pounds of fat. What boggles my mind is that everyone says I’m crazy to think I need to lose ANY weight. I’ve got clearly visible fat around my middle and other areas, even if I’m not “technically obese”. I don’t look great in most clothes. But compared to the typical person (my age or not), people think I’m in great shape.
I wouldn’t say what I do is incredibly hard. But it’s also not just “do whatever you want all the time”.
GLP-1s have dramatic impact on diabetes and a number of other life threatening diseases, that wildly outweigh the side effects.
In general I agree. However I know someone who, since they have gone on GLP-1 burp, hiccup and do this strange 'gasp' with regularity. Probably related to the delayed gastric emptying. Adjusting dose hasn't helped. To them its a good trade because they had always struggled with weight loss. When I observe them sure they look better but now it seems like they are in a different type of constant discomfort.
You dont need to weight lift and eat some kind of huge amount of protein to be healthy. Do not be ridiculous. The bulky aesthetic is just that, men liking when men are bulky. And if your goal is to be thin, you should pick different sport then weight lifting.
There's a valid point buried in there, though; that being skinny won't make you fit / healthy by itself. You don't have to lift weights, but you do have to be a little active in some way.
you basically do, especially older people and women. it helps significantly with bone density, balance, and other markers for long-term health. the idea that weight lifting is just for men (or that bulking up is something you can do by accident) is an idea that should (and is) dying quickly.
just because you lift weights and eat protein doesn't mean you'll be bulky, do not be ridiculous.
You've obviously never lifted weights in your life. Or you're naturally gifted and put on muscle as soon as you touch a barbell.
Most people are not like this. They can lift weights and benefit from a stronger body without looking any different.
Research suggests that aerobic fitness largely compensates for the negative health effects of being overweight. https://www.physiologicallyspeaking.com/p/physiology-friday-...
e.g. being aerobically trained and overweight may be more or less equivalent to being at a healthy weight but not training. obviously the best case scenario is to be at a healthy weight and trained. additionally, aerobic training is much more achievable and sustainable for most people long term than weight loss.
The most absurd thing I have read regarding this topic is people asking for advice on life style changes they can do in order to reduce the Ozempic side effects...
Are you similarly baffled by marathon runners swapping tips on how to soothe sore feet?
You don't even have to exercise to lose weight. Try to make a sedentary person to sweat 500kcal a day, or not eating them, and see which is easier