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I had some really, really bad dishwasher-related fights with my wife and daughter. With that in mind, I found the "right way" last fall when I stopped trying to optimize loading the dishwasher and waiting to run it until it was full.
I call it "dishwasher anarchy". It gets loaded haphazardly throughout the day, run at night, and emptied the next morning.
It really, really offends my sensibilities.
Stuff is in the "wrong" place. We are using a lot more detergent. I assume we are using a lot more energy and water.
I also haven't had any dishwasher-related fights with my wife and daughter since we started this new protocol. I guess it's a win.
Mad Raccoon here. I resolved the arguments by insisting that people nest-stack their dirty dishes on the kitchen counter so they don't fall off the fucking counter and break. However, I haven't managed to break them of the habit of stacking dirty pans and pots at the back of the stove. My ADHD mind just doesn't see them there for some reason, and running out of clean pots/skillets has not been painful enough to them to change their habits. By the way, it's a six-burner Wolf that came with the house, and there's always room for more dirty dishes at the back. I would love to replace it with a four-burner induction, but that's a remodel job I'm trying to put off.
I do this simply to keep on top of dishes. I always run the dishwasher at night regardless of how full it is. If it's significantly full after lunch I run it then too, even if it's not all the way full. Otherwise, when dinner comes around I likely won't have room for the additional dishes from that and would need to do a cycle before going to bed, wait for it to finish, then empty and load it with the leftovers.
I load and unload the dishwasher, so it’s a protocol by one person doing it. I do have to tell my wife to use more bowl like dishes and less bowels lest the top be too full and the bottom not full enough. I’ve purchased dishes that fit those dimensions (they can go on the bottom but are still bowel-like) especially to satisfy dishwasher loading constraints.
Yeah, sometimes the best thing to do is to let it go even if it drives you crazy. I do that all the time with my wife (and in fairness I assume she does the same for me). I only push the point when it's something truly important.
This is the correct strategy. I do this, but then also rearrange everything in the dishwasher properly every night after everyone else has gone to bed.
The trick is to secret away in the middle of the night and do it correctly. Naturally this only works if the dishwasher has a timer.
Did they not care how to do it right, or they did but disagreed on how to do it?
They didn't care about minimizing the number of times the machine was run. They'd put things wherever it suited them without regard for getting as many dishes in a load as possible.
We've got a nice Bosch machine. It's never missed getting something clean. I'm actually pretty amazed by it.
Since it does well I was trying to make sure all the slots were full before running it. That caused friction.
See, you should've figured out these details before getting married etc.
There should be a guide for this stuff. Here's a list of stuff that you don't realize yet, you should make sure you're on the same page as the other person, etc
That's my solution too.
> Modern dishwashers use a turbidity sensor to detect how dirty the water, and therefore the dish, is.
That’s a fun word.
US NOAA: “Turbidity is a measure of the level of particles such as sediment, plankton, or organic by-products, in a body of water”
Other definitions focus on it being a measure of the clarity of a fluid.
I don't really believe it though. How deep does that sensor penetrate? If I put a clean bowl in front of it and the rest are all dirty, does that affect the wash?
I'm sorry, but I'm going to keep pre-rinsing. It takes 5 seconds.
The sensor isn't in the main compartment, it's in the back reading the water (not a specific bowl or other item)
It measures the turbidity of the water in the hose. You can't put a clean bowl in front of it.
This is the BBC, but as a N. American dishwasher user, I'm struggling to translate the advice on soap/detergent. "Table" and "salt" are two terms that aren't linked to dishwashers in the middle of N. America. We've got "pods" (bad, manufacture specifies how much soap to use, also kids eat them), and we've got rinsing agent. You get a little bottle of rinsing agent with your dishwasher, and you never put it in again. It's magic.
Why would I put "salt" in my dishwasher? The article makes that additive out as preventative maintenance, and I don't think that's true of sodium chloride.
It's a European (maybe rest of the world) thing.
It's interesting how different dishwashers are in US and Europe. Two main things for me:
- Salt: European dishwashers have embedded water softeners and you add salt once in a while. Only super high end ones have it in US.
- Water heater: European dishwasher expect to receive cold water and they heat it internally; US ones expect hot water and only partially boost the temperature (sometimes). That's why you have to run hot water before starting the dishwasher
Always wondered how we ended up like this...
More people need to know this.
Why would I put "salt" in my dishwasher?
TFA has the answer, it's to soften the water:
'Special dishwasher salt, meanwhile, helps to "soften the water preventing lime scale build up and those horrid white marks on glasses."'
In the U. S., if hard water is a problem then the house probably has a whole-house softener, and "dishwasher salt" isn't necessary.
Rinse aid is an interesting topic. There's some evidence that it causes damage to the gut. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36464527/
> You get a little bottle of rinsing agent with your dishwasher, and you never put it in again.
Speak for yourself. I use rinsing agent regularly, and need to refill it every few weeks.
It's the "salt" used in water softeners. Necessary when you have "hard" water.
It's common in the US to have a whole house water-softener. Is this less common in the UK?
Brit here: It is very uncommon.
Article is wrong. Tablets/pods are silly. The most important thing to improve dishwasher performance is to put detergent in the prewash compartment as well as the main compartment, which you can't do with pods. Second most important (maybe North America-specific) is to run the hot water in the sink to flush the cold water out of the hot water line before starting, so the first fill of the dishwasher uses hot water.
More than you ever wanted to know: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHP942Livy0
AFAIK British dishwashers get plumbed into the cold water line, & heat it themselves. US dishwashers get plumbed into the hot water line, and only do a bit of extra heating. US dishwashers run on 1400W circuits (80% current rule on a 120V 15A plug), UK ones on 2300W circuits (80% current rule on a 220V 13A plug). Nearly twice the available power means they can heat the water properly on their own. They also more often have built-in water softeners, thus the mention of salt.
Definitely agree about tablets though, they're trash. Powdered detergent is the way to go.
I find big differences among tablets, so I'd say it depends. However powder is so much cheaper than it's just a no brainer if you don't have really dirty dishes. For dirty dishes I still prefer a good tablet though.
Isn't the 80% rule only for continuous loads (3+ hours)? Home dishwashers in the US are considered to be non-continuous loads if the net is to be believed.
For US-made dishwashers, this series (totaling almost two hours!) is educational:
Not the insights I was expecting.
Thought it would be some fluid dynamics and an actual pattern to stack. Not generic life hacks.
And. Don't pre-rinse, is outright is wrong.
If the turbidity meter is causing this effect, then the washer is wrong. There should still be a min time, regardless of turbidity reading. To think the plates aren't getting clean because the water is too clear is crazy. No washer works this way.
If the dishwasher smells or we are out of forks, knives and spoons, I run it. Don’t really care how it is loaded.
Maybe, but showing anyone other than your worst enemy this is likely to cost you your friendship. (Divorce if married).
Hate to be that guy, but I'm not sure this is an HN worthy article to be honest. It's a listsicle that covers the title for a minority of its points.
Perhaps one could look at this recent Technology Connections video and its accompanying blog for a more insightful look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHP942Livy0
Alternatively, perhaps a direct link to the video from this article is in order?
Oof, that scraped up frying pan in #5 should have a trigger warning.
They lost me at "use tablets", that's plain bullshit.
Tablets are probably the worst waste of detergent. A cheap crappy store bought powder well used beats tablets. Lookup the Technology Connections deep dive on dishwashers.
i gave up on stacking - no matter what i do, i get passive-aggressive comments from my wife
'raccoon on cocaine' she calls it :)
Why is this on HN?
Oh right because it's "interesting".
Step one: don't use a dishwasher. I haven't since I left home a lifetime ago and don't miss it. IMHO for a small family it's mostly security theater, and hand washing only a bit more than the rinsing before loading the dishwasher is all that is needed. Sterilization is overkill. Maybe I'll rue that choice when I contract some horrible bacterial disease.
A dishwasher is a game changer, especially if you have a baby, but even if you don’t. No need for a drying rack, no guessing if you cleaned well enough, and less water usage.
If your dishwasher is your drying rack, it is hugely space inefficient compared to my wire ones on the counter. The way I wash dishes uses less water than a dishwasher. I suppose dishwasher users consider that inadequate, but I'm a filthy rebel.
And I don't really have a feel for whether more cleanliness is a benefit compared to the hormetic effect of exercising the immune system.
> The way I wash dishes uses less water than a dishwasher.
Could you elaborate on this? My understanding is even if you're using a sink/basin filled with soapy water this is still almost always less efficient than a dishwasher.
You can wash and rinse a full load of dishes by hand with 3 gallons of water? Seems possible only if you aren't rinsing, but a dishwasher rinses too...
My guess is that since I couldn't possibly fill the dishwasher before using it, it would be using 3 gallons for one person's dishes per meal, and I doubt I use a whole gallon while hand washing.
> My guess is that since I couldn't possibly fill the dishwasher before using it
Do you own very few dishes or something? That's the only reason I can imagine not being able to fill it before needing to run it. Even before having a kid my wife and I could easily fill the dishwasher daily since we cook quite a bit.
I think you don't cook much if you say this... We try to cook our food as much as possible and also we are at home almost all the time. At the end of the day there can easily be 2-3 pots, 2-3 bowls, 4-6 cups for tea, coffee or breakfast, a few glasses, 4 to 8 dishes, utensils and cutlery, some devices like a blender attachment and its jug, Tupperwares and some pan that I made sure it's dishwasher safe...
I could reduce a bit the number of glasses and cups by reusing them more but anyway,the dishwasher makes a big difference.
Nope, I cook and wash dishes twice a day. I eat almost exclusively from the grocery store and haven't been to a restaurant, etc., since 2020. Somebody had to die for that to happen. But my cooking is simple, and I very rarely use more than a single cooking vessel (mostly an air fryer drawer), plate and utensils. I wash dishes so quickly that I think I'd feel the same if I were cooking for four.
Oh, you sweet dishwasher podchild. When I lived the life of a bachelor and ate over the sink/kitchen counter, I could get by with a single set of dishes, one cast-iron skillet, one pot, a single set of silverware, one knife, and one spatula.
Now that I cook for 2-3 people and more on holidays, I know from practical experience that the number of dirty dishes generated and the water used quickly exceeds anything a dishwasher would use. The use of water also increases when you cook big batches of food, so you can have quick meals available for lunches and dinners when you're too tired too cook and/or broke to go out to a restaurant/takeout.
If someone tried to take away my dishwasher, I would put their head on a pike in the front yard as a warning to anyone else who tried.
The one thing I've learned from this article and the comments here is that I really should run a load every night, even if the machine isn't totally full, because there are always more dishes used than it looks like at first glance.