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I don't get it, if you're on google meet, and you want to make one of many videos PiP. How can you ever do that in the window manager? It has to be done in the application! You right click or click on the menu on that particular video, and click Picture in picture.

How the heck can the window manager do it?

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The application could tell the window manager it wanted an always on top window. The window manager could ask the user if it should allow or reject and remember for this application or not.

That's exactly what I said... and also not how wayland works.

I cannot comprehend the way wayland folks think... quote from the xdg-pip discussion:

> To not make PiP windows effectively "always on top" and "on every workspace" dialogs - a terrible and sadly by applications used concept on X11 - PiP windows must be input-only, i.e. not receive keyboard, pointer and touch input

Like what the heck even? That is how pip windows are expected to work? And of course you want inputs on them? e.g to mute/unmute on a video call? Like these are use cases used daily by people. And its "terrible".

I also don't get it with the wayland people. It feels like they want to revert everything to a UX design that was getting old in the 90s.

They want to turn everything into an appliance.

If things were designed well, it would be as easy as clicking the pin icon on the window border.

How many buttons do you want on a window frame then? The typical 4 buttons already take a lot of space in the title bar. Not everything that seems like a good idea at first glance is actually good design.

I don't know man, everybody is fine with putting tabs, and searchbars, and a bunch of other shit in the titlebar, but god forbid we put one button that's actually incredibly useful.

Try to move a browser window when you have 20+ tabs open. This is an incredibly bad UX.

alt + left mouse button anywhere in the window (maybe win button or something is default now).

using the titlebar for moving a window is extremely backwards and productivity killer.

that being said, I agree with you, and I think its an outright abomination to put the tabs in the titlebar, and its disgusting how crome and firefox by default removes the real titlebar

Alt+LMB drag is impossible to do properly, at least on Windows, because too many applications use that for their own inputs. There are some X11 applications that also use that (Blender?), so while it's cool when it works, it comes with pretty severe problems.

Alt-drag works perfectly well on windows. I use a third party app called alt-drag to enable it. Has worked fine for years.

It also allows you to use it with win-drag of course.

there might exist some programs that do it, but this might be why they changed default from alt to win key.

in either case, that appears to be the very extreme minority of cases you have to move a window

I've fucking had it with you people and your "design"

As many buttons as he thinks he needs, and as a compromise they can be disabled by default and enabled through settings. Instead your ilk will probably remove even those remaining buttons and replace them with some obscure movement command

No, I wouldn't. I'm not your enemy. Please don't antagonize people like that. It's rude and I considered not replying because of your tone.

I have a pretty strong oppinion that GUI basics must be simple but more advanced stuff (e.g. tools that trainee professionals spend most of their workday in) must not hide its raw power because the user can be expected to learn.

User interface essentials have to be understandable without mental gymnastics by default without appearing overwhelming. The overwhelming majority of computer users don't change defaults on most software and a shockingly big number of computer users deal with them only because they must, not because they derive joy from it. They don't engage deeply with these devices at all. So those defaults must be picked carefully to keep the UI approachable. This isn't the same as ripping out features or antagonizing power users that do bother to learn.

That's what I have in my setup, six titlebar buttons: send to other screen, sticky among workspaces and always on top in addition to the base 3. Can't imagine ever using something that gives me less control again.